Cutting my Festy's springs

[william]

Tom did you have to "narrow" these shocks at the bottom like the kyb's ? I was going to go kyb's but if these don't need modding I may go this route.

[TominMO]

I'll pencil you in for treatment at the clinic when it's built. Haha.

With you as administrator and first patient.

Struts have settled down a bit. Rears are both 22 3/4". Pass. front is 23 3/4, driver is 23 3/8. Changing struts and tires has made it 100% more fun. I'm not even tempted to go with harder suspension bushings. What little imprecision I might have now is offset by non-vibration.

BTW, if anyone wants to go with Festy KYBs and these tires, no spacer would be needed. These tires are slightly shorter than 155/80-12s. So they fit nicely in the spare tire well, another plus. Think I'm gonna buy another one and come up with a rim, just for that reason.

Man that was good chewing gum. Rats, forgot to buy a pencil. See ya.

[Advancedynamix]

I'll pencil you in for treatment at the clinic when it's built. Haha.

[TominMO]

Please use extreme caution. If you thought these cars were habit forming before, you haven't seen anything yet. With a properly tuned suspension, you will notice the addiction gripping you tighter than ever. You may start displaying odd traits, like planning your travel according to the roads with the best corner combos. You will be considered a lunatic by the people who can't keep up with you in their proper sports cars and expensive European exotics. You will hunger for more. This disease has no known cure, and it's effects on the body are quite severe. Your face will change shape from the permanent grin, and you're hands will always want to reside on 10 and 2 in an imaginary circle in front of you.
I wish to some day build a clinic to help people with this disorder. I feel the only positive treatment is 3 30min sessions a day of therapy on a designated road coarse.

Too late for me. I am told I already display odd traits. So I would be adding a whole new set of them to the ones already existing?

Excuse me, gotta go for a drive now. There's a grocery store about 20 miles away; I have to go get some chewing gum.

[Advancedynamix]

Please use extreme caution. If you thought these cars were habbit forming before, you haven't seen anything yet. With a properly tuned suspension, you will notice the addiction gripping you tighter than ever. You may start displaying odd traits, like planning your travel according to the roads with the best corner combos. You will be considered a lunatic by the people who can't keep up with you in their proper sports cars and expensive European exotics. You will hunger for more. This disease has no known cure, and it's effects on the body are quite severe. Your face will change shape from the permanent grin, and you're hands will always want to reside on 10 and 2 in an imaginary circle in front of you.
I wish to some day build a clinic to help people with this disorder. I feel the only positive treatment is 3 30min sessions a day of therapy on a designated road coarse.

[TominMO]

Those shorter rear shocks also do the work of a sway bar without the negatives of a sway bar. In about 300 miles of normal driving, those bilstein shocks will loosen up a bit and should ride even smoother without a sacrifice in handling. This advice is from experience with them on the VW cars.

Nice! :-)

[Advancedynamix]

Those shorter rear shocks also do the work of a sway bar without the negatives of a sway bar. In about 300 miles of normal driving, those bilstein shocks will loosen up a bit and should ride even smoother without a sacrifice in handling. This advice is from experience with them on the VW cars.

[TominMO]

Just took it for a drive to settle in the springs, about 2 miles. Rear height (ground to fender arch) is 23" on one side and 23 1/8" on the other. Fronts are 23 1/4" driver and 23 3/4" passenger. I accidentally swapped front springs, and didn't feel like taking the struts apart again. I may or may not do so to try to correct the 1/2" difference. I've heard that driver's springs tend to be slightly stiffer to compensate for a lone driver. The car's stance looks good; maybe a little high in front. I might cut 1/2 a coil on front, and put in long bump stops for protecting the strut. They are cut 1 coil now, but the end is pretty flat so it's not like cutting a normal inner coil. I think I can get away with another 1/2 coil. If not, I have other springs I can put on.

The perfect ID pipe would be 2" even or 2 1/16". I'm not sure that 2 1/16 is even available, but I'm happy with this one. Gives room for the duct tape, so I don't mar the actual strut. I think the strut is 2" even.

I did slim down the metal tube on both sides to fit the lower mount in; approx. 1/16" on each side.

But back to the drive. With these tires, the slightly cut front springs and the lower stock rear springs, and the great struts front and rear, this thing is on rails going around corners! Handles driveway ramps rally well with the Bilsteins. Stock spring rate feels fine. I can feel the difference between strut dampening/short sidewalls and old iffy Monroes/taller-sidewall dampening. The short shifter just added extra fun.

The previous tires were 175/65-14 T-rated General Altimax RT43s, and I could drift the car easily around corners just by applying power. They had a noticably lighter feel than the 185/60 Kumho Solus KR21s I had on previous to the Generals (which are now on the 323, with Capri rims). I'm sold on these 165/55-14s. Thanks for the advice Charlie.

Time for more power. Of course. It's just a B6, but I'm in consultations with Matt D...........

[Advancedynamix]

There is probably a pipe with the perfect I.D. for this setup. Post up an O.D. on those bodies (as accurate as you have the means to measure) and all of us folk with random pieces of metal laying around can check. Also, what did you have to do to fit the lower mount into the festy beam? The kyb shocks were too wide down there.
Thanks for posting all this Tom. Great info. Bilstein makes the best dampers in the world, hands down. This is a big landmark in festy handling.

[TominMO]

Here are the results of my Bilstein experiment. I was able to use the stock uncut springs. They sit 2" lower than in a normal Festy strut, and are therefore easier to mount and dismount.









The way I was able to use my stock springs and not go the coilover route is that I am using very short and narrow tires, on my 6" Estrellas--165/55-14 Achilles ATR-K Economist, summer only, AA traction, V-rated. Even then I needed a 6mm spacer, as you can see.

The Bilsteins came with two different spring seats. The narrower one is on bottom, and I clearanced it on the tire side. The slightly wider one is on top. I was able to get this extra height by using the 2 1/8" connector exhaust pipe you see there. It cost $3. Between the pipe and the strut is duct tape, folded over and taped to itself. No tape is stuck onto the strut. The gap between the top spring seat and the tire is enough to fit my index finger into. I'll probably take it apart again and paint the connector pipe a nice blue.

I haven't driven it yet because I want to get the other three tires mounted and balanced; just did one today, so I'd have a real-world wheel/tire setup to check fit. Tomorrow I'll go for the first test run.

BTW the Bilstein comes with five height adjustments, 3/8" apart. The snap ring came pre-installed in the middle one, and that turned out to be best for what I was doing. IDK if the KYB strut comes with the two seats. The fact that the Bilstein did made me come up with this solution. I might possibly eventually go to a coilover setup, but maybe not; this should turn out to be very functional. I'll know more tmw obviously.

I'll take a pic tmw after all the tires are mounted and I take it for a ride, so you can see the stance. If it's too low, I might try swapping the Festy springs for Aspire ones. The spring is ~2" lower on the new strut, and the tire radius is .8" shorter than my previous tires.

[TominMO]

Got my tires and rear VW Bilsteins today. I'll put up some pics tmw. It looks like it will actually be possible to use the stock springs, with a little ingenuity; no need to go to the expense of coilovers. I'll explain when I take pics, since it will be easier.

The Achilles Economists (wierd name) are rated AA for traction. 165/55-14, V-rated, summer only. The Bilsteins are way stiffer. I'm gonna like this combo, I'm thinking.

[nitrofarm]

Hey if anyone is interested here is a cheap coil-over for the front. But it will only get you @ 3" lower in the front. The Rio struts are just too Dang long.
eBay kit comes with the Blue things and sleeves $39
Southwest Springs $60.00
KYB for the Rio $100
Grind the perch and sway-bar link mount off and grind the seal area at the top of the strut.Slide on the sleeve and your done. I did add a stainless washer under the sleeve to spread the load out also.
These work good but still need to drop it another inch so I'm going to do Charlies Raceland/RSK strut Mod.



Peace-

[Advancedynamix]

Yeah, after inspecting Ben's tires I will probably order a set as well. I like the FD-1's too, but I'd like a little better wet weather traction for my cross country excursions.

[TominMO]

Thanks Charlie. A guy from onlinetires left a msg on my fone yesterday, saying he had good news about my (original) order for the FD1s. I had canceled the order when they called me and told me they only had two. I will call him back Monday, and expect he will say he located two more. But I already bought the Economists, and that sounds like it might be the better tire for me anyway.

[Advancedynamix]

I haven't been able to compare the two on the same car, but I saw a set of the economist tires in a 165 55 14 today and they looked just like the 185/40-16 set on my Capri. The economist tires look like better wet weather tire than the federal. I haven't had any problems in the rain with my Capri, but it's also a much heavier car. Nonamekid has them on his car and he drove in rain today, so he may have a good review. The Federal formoza tires aren't the best rain tire. My Nankang ns2 tires were better rain tires, but those are hard to get.