Too Much Separation?

[danwheeler]

Forgive me if this is the wrong place to post this - it's hard to tell.

At the risk of being banned, or boo'd, or whatever... I just want to say I think this forum is way too segregated.

I really think the free exchange of information is hindered by the over-organization of the many forum areas.

The engine swaps section is a good example of this. There are 3 separate sections for engine swaps. Turbo, N/A and "complex". This seems excessive to me.

I agree with the concept of sorting and "everything has a place". In my home and garage I have labeled plastic containers for EVERYTHING.

However, I think that excessively sorting human conversation into many separate "bins" as if they were red, blue and green blocks is counter-productive.

Here is why I believe the current format does not work well and why most other BBS/Forums with fewer areas are more successful:

Obviously a majority of the posts in all areas are in the form of questions. Who answers questions? Knowledgeable people or experts. To best serve the people with questions and to facilitate the free exchange of information, the questions must be presented to the experts in a straight forward manner. I don't believe this is happening at FordFestiva.com due to the excessive partitioning of discussion in this "forum". An expert is expected to enter each area and scour for questions to answer. Realistically nobody wants to do this because it's too difficult and time consuming.

Questions on this forum don't get the answers they deserve. It's not because people are lazy, mean or dont care - it's because it's too difficult to see all the questions. The exchange of information is not happening. It's like taking 30 people into a building and splitting 10 groups of 3 into 10 different offices. The groups are isolated - they have no idea what the other groups are discussing and are not benefiting from the experts in the other groups.

Think of it this way - if an expert has a specific question about a complex engine swap he goes into the complex engine swap area and discusses the question with a few other experts in that area. Meanwhile, you have a newbie asking an easy question in the repair area. The experts dont ever enter the repair help forum because they have no need to. What we end up with is a bunch of idiots in a room asking eachother questions they dont know the answers to. It sounds mean but its the truth. It is the blind leading the blind.

For these reasons I ask that the moderators/owners consider de-segregating the forum areas into fewer groups. I feel as if I am not being heard on this forum and more importantly I am unable to help others.

Thanks,
Dan

[Gforcefd]

its working for us

We have everything seperated so you can find stuff easyer with the annoying SEARCH function, that so many new commers get. I know at first I really didn't like searching through all these sections for stuff, but after time you get used to it, and know when you click on the wheels section it will be about wheels. When you click on the photo's section there will be photo's. Its just easyer than playing russian rullet for conversations.

We need this organization because believe it or not there is alot of talk going on, and it must be working because we have jumped to over 1000 members a couple months ago.

Your not going to get flamed for your post, and you could have put this in general discussion because it is about the board. Off topic is usually more about anything, computers, sex, the internet, politics. Stuff that has no bearing to festiva's in anyways:-) If you put this in the arena you definetely would get flamed because that's what the arena is for.

Putting something in there is like saying, lets argu about this...

[Guest]

Ok I will try not to flame... but dude you posted a complaint about the board in the off topic area instead of news and support where the admins look for news and support questions.. common sense.

This is not the FML.. if you want a single pile of messages to dig through.. that's the place to go.

If I want info on a B6T swap. Why would you post in a generic forum of swaps.. people that understand and have actually built these cars with turbos won't search to post and reply there.

Why should we have to dig through all the "I want to swap a B6 into my Festiva" posts which is a 100% different concept than a B6T or BPT.. most guys wanting a little power will go with a naturally aspirated engine.. so why should the turbo guys who are doing you a favor by trying to help, have to weed through all the easy B3 and B6 swap newbie questions?

These guys are way beyond that. Not to say they don't pop into the NA or Complex swap areas to see what people are doing and offer advise. Following your suggestion would make it a pain for people to answer questions that pertain to their particular expertise.

Why would anyone ask for help and then suggest to make it more difficult to for them to do so? Doesn't make sense.

Your problem seems to be that you are overwhelmed by information and don't know what you want to do?

Do you want to swap in a turbo? Or a NA engine? Do you know the difference? Do you have the capability? How much would it cost to do what I want to do once I have that figured out? These questions will be answered without everyone having to figure out exactly which engine, turbo, NA or oem that you are writing about. Because it is a non issue if you post in the RIGHT place.

The experts as you say are not employees of FF.Com so they come and go.. sometimes they're gone months at a time, but are still damn helpfull even if after they miss a month or 2 on the board. This would not be the case if there was just a big pile of engine swap data.. I imagine they would not reply on missed topics in a huge generic area.. Why expect them to search to help someone? This is exactly why the FML is dieing...

[nonamekid]

You don't want something like this do you?

http://www.xt6.net/forum/

I can't find anything on there. Everything related to cars is in the general section. After seeing both boards I like this one more.

[Guest]

Ok I re-read Dan''s post and can't refrain...

FF.Com is far from being unsuccessful.. and I DO take offense that someone who hardly ever contributes thinks they have the key for our success.. Where were you when we were busting our asses to give everyone this site free of charge? Where is your site that is so successful that you have the expertise to tell us what is wrong with ours..

We are the ONLY Festiva board that has made it for more than a year.. It took 3 years to get to 1300 users on the old EZBOARD. When we switched to phpbb, we started over.. that was Jan 05. Here is its 14 months later and we are almost at the same level it took us 3 years to get to before.. So we've obviously done something right.

This site is about cars that were never popular, never considered to be anything but throw away cars.. and still today are laughed at because they are old and small.. So comparing it to a Honduh or Muscle car site is unfair..

How successful do you think it can get? In the last few months, we have changed the site graphics, added new moderators and admins.. added personal swag for everyone to support the site, a new major meet has been delveloped, we've weeded out the trolls and there's pretty much a big family here now.. This goes to show that the old saying is true... No matter what you do, or how well you do it.. someone will bitch about something.

Most of the forums that pertain to our cars are the same way.. 323 forums? same way.. Aspire forums.. same way.. even the VW boards like strictlyea.. are the same way.. and we've even been emulated by other boards as well... have you even looked at our stats?

If I had a penny for every hit I'd be in the $$$$.. But I refuse to turn this site into an ad fest so that I make money or have to charge people to not see the ads.. hence the switch from EZboard..

This site will always be Free and owned by me.. I have been offered over 10k for the ff.com domain and have turned it down 3 times.. I will never sell, compromise or be prodded into making bad decisions that may kill FF.Com somewhere down the line..

And just in case members have to be reminded..

This board is the most popular/successful Festiva/Aspire site EVER!

[FB71]

Dan, I can somewhat understand your concern. At first glance, it can 'look' busy and crowded with topics. However, I truly appreciate the ability to go to one specific forum to read info on turbo engines ONLY, and not have to wade through posts about n/a 1.6s and v8 conversions. I think all the changes made here have been progress, and enhance the usability of the site. For that, DJ, I thank you. This the ONLY site that I've been a member of for more than 3 months, because of DJ's management. Once again DJ, thank you.

[mattswabb]

It should be segregated. I do look at most every post on this forum when I get the time. When I'm in a hurry I concentrate on the forums I'm interested in and have knowledge of. Now since I'm doing a turbo car I always check every post in the turbo section and since I did a n/a swap I look those over as well.

I wouldn't want the car audio stuff mixed into the general discussion forum or the regional stuff mixed in as well. Why would I want to sift thru posts of where members are from in northern Canada or Australia?

This setup seems pretty organized. Sometimes I do have to think where to put/move a topic but most of the time it is obvious.

If everything was lumped together then your important post on how to get your car back on the road so you can get to work tomorrow will be buried by some silly thread that should be in the arena. The repair expert may not want to scroll down a page or 2 to check your post.

[HappyMom]

Re: Too Much Separation?

I think this set-up is very good, much better than Corolland http://www.corolland.com/forums which on top of having only two forums that are really used, it's search function doesn't work.

Here, I never visit the motor swap sections, because I'll probably never do a motor swap, same with most of the customizing... So I just don't go there.

However, I think that excessively sorting human conversation into many separate "bins" as if they were red, blue and green blocks is counter-productive.

^^^I agree than human thought is not always linear and someone could have an input on a thread that may not necessarily be topic related and the thread could shift direction. I don't know how the Mods split or move these threads, but if it isn't a total thread hijacking, maybe in those cases cut the offending members some slack?

[danwheeler]

Like I said, sorry if I posted this in the wrong place. The subtitle for "News and Support" reads:

CONTAINS RULES, ANNOUNCEMENTS AND SUPPORT. POST ANY SITE/FORUM RELATED PROBLEMS HERE.

Can you really blame me for posting it here? I was only following directions.

In a way that partially proves my point but it sounds like i'm completely on my own here anyway.

I appreciate you all taking the time to respond. I still stand by my opinion. Success is not always measured in numbers, swag and/or new members. Other success factors are worth measuring as well. Are people being helped as best they can here? I personally dont think so. There are too many questions posted in obscure areas that never get a good response. Why? Nobody sees them. People are too busy working on their own issues in their little corner of the board to pick their head up once and a while and see what other people are having problems with.

I apologize for seeming to come out of nowhere with a plea for major change on this board. It may seem innapropriate but please try to consider the value of an outside opinion.

I'll use ClassicBroncos.com as an example. It's THE place to go for early Bronco discussion. They have ONE area - "Bronco Talk". It's one stop shopping. With all the thousands of members on that board constantly posting all their questions it's still a great place to go and isn't overwhelming. When I ask a question I usually get a response from several people. I also find myself scanning through the most recent posts in the ONE area to see whats going on. I have a better opportunity to discuss MORE issues with MORE people. It's a free exchange of information between Bronco owners without barriers.

I'm not suggesting a complete consolidation of the areas. But I do think 3 separate areas for 3 separate kinds of swaps is excessive.

not that anyone cares, but here is what I think would work very well:

- There should be one area for swaps.

- General Discussion, Repair Help, Drivetrain and Wheels & Brakes should be combined into a single, more general "Tech" type area.

- As always, there should be an off-topic area but "The Arena" and "Off Topic" should really be consolidated.

- I guess car audio could be separated because its stupid and nobody cares j/k

I'm not trying to start a flame war here so please keep cool. I should be able to voice my opinion without people being offended. I think i've been pretty considerate - let me know otherwise.

[Gforcefd]

The arena and off topic should not be combinded.

You bitch in the arena, you CHAT in the off topic. I don't want to read about a bunch of people complaining to another group in OT, I want to talk about everything not festiva related. Its our little hang out on the board where we kind of get to know each others weird life.

its all kept so specificly seperated so you can find a answer quicker if you need it.

If I go to one of those websites and have to scroll through the whole website forum history looking for something that might match the problem I have, chances are I won't find it. Some of these forums have a couple hundred pages of posts.

Logan

[danwheeler]

The arena and off topic should not be combinded.

You bitch in the arena, you CHAT in the off topic. I don't want to read about a bunch of people complaining to another group in OT, I want to talk about everything not festiva related. Its our little hang out on the board where we kind of get to know each others weird life.

You're right. Sorry - I got sidetracked. The basis for my suggestion was to help more people and combining those two areas wouldn't really make much of a difference.

[mattswabb]

I think on sites like ClassicBronco.com your post gets buried to fast. I also browse the classic mustang forum. The posts there get pushed down 3 or 4 pages in a day. At least here they stay visible longer even though you have to check in different forums.

[danwheeler]

I think on sites like ClassicBronco.com your post gets buried to fast. I also browse the classic mustang forum. The posts there get pushed down 3 or 4 pages in a day. At least here they stay visible longer even though you have to check in different forums.

totally agree. Thats why I think there is a balance between no separation and over-separation.

Personally I'd rather see a quick moving forum over an over-separated one but I can see it both ways so I wont argue that point.

[fastivaca]

When you sign in you there are three links on the right hand side allowing you to view all the posts since your last visit, all your own posts or all unanswered posts.

I have found that feature to be very helpful. Saves sorting through every forum every time I'm on.

Personally I like the way things are set up here. I like being able to go directly to the NA Swaps section and not have to sift through a lot of turbo info. If I'm looking for something specific I can go directly to the pertinent posts, saving me time and energy.

Thanks to DJ and the moderators (hey... that sounds like a good name for a band ) for all the work they put into this site.

[jeffdjeffd]

I like this forum setup. At first glance, it seemed too busy. I thought that about the 323 forums and such in the past, too.

I'm on a Corvair forum that I love that is basically all one lump group. I guess it works okay there, as long as topic titles are kept on subject and threads don't change direction. Unfortunately, they do. The saving grace of that forum is the cookies - if a topic has new replies or is a new topic there is a nifty little "new" in red next to it. So I can scroll down throug it until I get to the end of the new stuff. I don't check these forums at all most weekends, so by Monday morning, I'm looking at PAGES of new material. I skip most of it.

I guess my long winded reply is to keep it as it is - it's neatly organized, and the current mods keep a sharp enough eye to keep topics where they belong - sometimes a little too picky, even (self included).
jeff