Not Loud Enough

[Schildir]

I have 4 of these speakers:
http://www.amazon.com/Boss-CH4220-4-...f=pd_rhf_p_t_1
4" 200 Watt.

And this stereo:
http://www.amazon.com/Boss-Audio-740...f=pd_rhf_p_t_1
80 watts x 4 channels.

I've had this setup in my car since July, when I replaced all the stock audio components, but even at near max volume (45/50) it isn't very loud. With my current leaky exhaust, it is almost impossible to hear during acceleration. If I go above 45 volume, the quality of sound goes way down.

Is the problem that I have 200 watt speakers, and each is only getting a max of 80 watts? Or is it something else entirely? I'd like to find out what I need to do before I go spending more money on different speakers or another stereo.

Thanks.

[sipderdoc]

I have 4 of these speakers:
http://www.amazon.com/Boss-CH4220-4-...f=pd_rhf_p_t_1
4" 200 Watt.

And this stereo:
http://www.amazon.com/Boss-Audio-740...f=pd_rhf_p_t_1
80 watts x 4 channels.

I've had this setup in my car since July, when I replaced all the stock audio components, but even at near max volume (45/50) it isn't very loud. With my current leaky exhaust, it is almost impossible to hear during acceleration. If I go above 45 volume, the quality of sound goes way down.

Is the problem that I have 200 watt speakers, and each is only getting a max of 80 watts? Or is it something else entirely? I'd like to find out what I need to do before I go spending more money on different speakers or another stereo.

Thanks.

I think wasting the potential of sound equipment ... why not try using a 2-Way Speakers 6 "as a minimum (http://www.amazon.com/MTX-Thunder-XT...7986471&sr=1-3) or you can use 3-Way Speakers without (http://www.amazon.com/320-WATT-6x9-3...7986471&sr=1-1) the need for a plant ... of course you can not use the original carriers of the car ... looks in the custom car forum audio are sure to find interesting options there.... before modifying.. lucky

[DriverOne]

A few things you might consider: First, bass blockers for your 4" speakers. They're filters that you can buy at Wal-Mart. The 4" speakers will reproduce the full range at full volume, but will distort quickly unless you restrict them from dropping below 85hz. Something you'd want to check is the RMS rating of the speakers compared to that of the stereo. If your stereo is max 80w, your RMS may be around 27-36w where as your speakers at 200w may have an RMS of around 40-65w which would mean that even though your speakers aren't being driven like they should, your stereo has gone beyond what would be considered normal use. A quick solution (and I would still recommend the bass blockers, just 'cause) would be to add an amplifier to the system, and a small powered subwoofer. Amp under one seat, sub under the other, and I would definitely fix the exhaust.

[Festiva_tunner]

Sounds to me that you simply need an amp and some exaust work

[Schildir]

I will definitely look into the bass blockers, since the more bassy sounds are what is getting distorted at the higher volume.

Then to fix the volume issues, I should either get an amp for my current system, or get speakers that have an RMS closer to that of the stereo, right?

Oh, and I found out that the RMS for the stereo is only 20 watts x 4 channels. RMS on the speakers is 50 watts each.

[Festiva_tunner]

On a high end amp you will have the filters built in

[Schildir]

Since my stereo is only 20 watts RMS, what RMS should I look for in speakers? I'm sure having the same RMS is best, but if I went up to about 35, which seems to be common in some of the speakers I'm looking at, will I still have problems? I would assume if I did, it wouldn't be as bad though, as the difference would be half as much.

(I'm looking at getting 6.5" speakers for the back, since the 4" speakers I have only go down to 100 Hz, and the 6.5" ones I have seen go substantially lower.)

I would like to take care of this without a subwoofer or amp if possible.

[MONSOON]

Make sure you have the polarity correct on the speakers as well. + to + , - to -. That will effect sound quality as well.
Unfortunately unless you want to run new heavier guage wire to the speakers your bass response wont be that great.
I wouldnt change the speakers just look into the things Ive suggested.
Unfortunately the way the speakers set in our cars, youre not going to get super bass as it is.

[FestYboy]

RMS isn't what you need to pay attention to, it's the efficiency (SPL@1W/1M).
the more efficient your speakers are, the more you'll get out of them at a given power level.
true you need an amp to get everything out of your speakers, but i recomend you invest in an amp that is capable of 4xspeaker RMS (i.e. if you're seakers are rated at 50w RMS, then your amp should be rated to 200w RMS per channel) you can overdrive your speakers with clean signal and they'll survive, but if you run your amp ragged trying to push power, you'll quickly ruin your speakers.

and remember, doubling your output (going from 50w to 100w) will only net your a gain of 3dB. whereas an audible doubling of volume requires a gain of 10dB (going from 50w to 500w).

[Schildir]

Now I'm getting confused... It seems like I'm being told I can't get a volume increase without an amp... First RMS matters, then it doesn't, but then if I get an amp, it matters again, but I should get 4 times the wattage of the speakers...

My first car was a 1987 Mustang (2.3L). It had the premium sound package (6 speakers and an amp). When I got an aftermarket stereo (since the car didn't have one at all), we bypassed the amp, and I never went above 35/50 volume, not only because it was incredibly loud, but because the speakers were making horrible "we are going to die" noises. Now, if an aftermarket unit with less watts than my current one can do that to stock speakers, I don't understand how getting speakers close to or equal to the output level of the stereo will not help me.

Unless I'm missing something, or reading things wrong. Because I am sure that the stereo was louder with my old decrepit stock speakers, and I am also quite sure that if we exaggerate the difference, a 1000 watt stereo would make a 100 watt speaker much louder than a 20 watt stereo would.

[MONSOON]

I found that with 6 X 9s in boxes in back and 6.5s in the doors using 14 gauge wire not the factory stuff, with the JVC unit did a pretty good job. Would an amp that had equivalent wattage have made it sound better? Certianly. Because it would have been taking the load off the stereo and it would have cleaned up the sound, but not by making it louder, just cleaner sounding.
Just go to Wallyworld and get yourself some Pioneer speakers. They wont be great speakers, but theyll be better than Boss any day of the week. And dont expect Home stereo sound out of 4" speakers. It aint gonna happen.
And that head unit isnt putting out 320 watts total. I dont care what it says. And nowhere do I see where it says it has a Mofset amp.And that includes Boss' website. Other than 1 persons review of it.
Ill date myself a little here even though they do still make some products. I bought a Pyramid headunit that had the same specs as that the exception being that it had cassette(Yes it was a number of yrs ago) After I got it and had been disappointed for the very same reasons I shopped around and ended up getting a Pioneer that actually put out less power. But outshined that Pyramid unit without any trouble.
What Im saying is you get what you pay for. But you could have went with a Kenwood, JVC, Clarion or Pioneer for the same or not alot more money and been WAY happier than you are right now.

[Schildir]

I am going to start by replacing the Boss unit with this Kenwood one:
http://www.amazon.com/Kenwood-KDC-MP...pr_product_top
(I found it cheaper on eBay, but wanted to include a link that would stay valid longer)

I could only find one bad review, and it was about a moisture problem, not sound quality or anything like that. Every other review I have found has been very good.

The Boss stereo has issues anyway... Doesn't turn on sometimes until you eject the CD and put it back in, forgets all my settings at random, randomly jumps backwards when listening to CDs (and then cuts the song off early)... Very annoying.

[DriverOne]

If you're sticking with your 4" speakers and upgrading your head unit, you may solve your own problem by buying a better quality head unit. If you're not buying an amp with a built-in crossover that would remove the need for filters (BTW, I was considering Schildir's attempt to keep things as low-dollar as possible), you may find your sound quality improves at higher volumes using them. Oh, and if you were to use other speakers as well as your 4", say utilizing the speaker holes in the doors, that amplifier wouldn't push bass to those speakers either with the amp crossover set at 85Hz, and you'd have to lower your crossover point to 45Hz, adding filters to the 4" anyway.

[FestYboy]

Shilder, sorry if i confused you earlier, i'll clarify later in this post. but first:
Do Not Buy the Kenwood... find a Pioneer unit (built in crossovers); newest model out there is the DEH 3200UB. $120 new off amazon. you'd have to go into the eXelon range rom kenwood to get similar specs.

anyway, i'll say this right out, the boss speakers are CRAP, BUT, they only sound like crap because you're at your headunit's limits and trying to drive 40Hz through a speaker that shouldnt see anything below 120Hz... the speaker just can't keep up. so, you fix the bass issue by putting bass blockers in line with your speakers and that makes things somewhat better, but it's just not right. the headunit (HU) is still at it's limits and it's THD (total harmonic distortion) at this point is well above 10%(full band width). humans don't like THD much over 1% but can tollerate near 5% for freq. below 80 or so Hz.

in short: the HU is making the speakers still sound like crap. so you replace the HU... things get MUCH better, but again, still not perfect. reason? not loud enough and the THD is still a bit much. solution: remove bass blockers and activate the HU's internal crossover (lowers THD at the limit due to not haveing to reproduce low freq.) so now it sounds louder because it's much clearer. still not loud enough though... boss speakers are rated at 87dB @ 1w/1m (at best)but pioneer C series are rated at 90dB (100% more efficient), and the Infinity Reference 4032cf are another 100% more efficient that that!! so right off the bat, you're as much as 3x as loud as your boss speakers were.

[Schildir]

Shilder, sorry if i confused you earlier, i'll clarify later in this post. but first:
Do Not Buy the Kenwood...

Too late. It's still going to be an improvement no matter what though, testfreaks.com has the Kenwood unit listed at second best Kenwood stereo and fifth best stereo overall, versus the Boss piece of crap being well below 500 in rank.

Also, the Pioneer stereo you recommended is $50 more than I got the Kenwood one for... Not saying it wouldn't have been worth it, maybe, but I was able to use that $50 (well, $44.44) to get these 6.5" speakers to put in the back.
http://www.testfreaks.com/car-speake...fosgate-r1653/
Rated at 89dB, so still better than the Boss ones.

I guess I should have been looking at the dB rating? The higher it is, the louder the speakers can get without sounding like crap?