Proper way to add speakers

[rockin86ranger]

I am looking to add 2 more speakers to my 4 speaker setup. It's in my 95 taurus, I am running a kenwood head unit adapted to the factory harness. I have a set of kickker 6x9s in the rear and a set of pioneer 6.5"s in the front doors. I would like to add another set of the same 6.5s to the rear doors. My issue is I am not sure the proper way to tie them into the system, I already have a power shortage when trying to push the 6x9s. Any help would be nice, I don't have a problem doing the work but I am not up to par on keeping audio clean and I know it doesn't help having them mixed like that but it's what I have. I was thinking maybe tying 2 two channel small amps into the front speaker lines and splitting them to the rear door speakers (same size and brand speakers on the same amp for better tuning) but I am not sure if that would affect sound quality and not sure if I need to worry with putting an amp to the 6x9s too. I am working on a small budget as well (full time student) but eventually I would like to add a couple of tweeters to the front pillars and 1 or 2 10" subs in the back (even though bass will probably be acceptable with my setup some extra thump can't hurt).

I will try to round up the part numbers and specs for what I have head unit and speaker wise. Thanks

[FestYboy]

easiest way to add speakers to your rear doors is to tie them to the front door harnesses IN SERIES. that will keep your head unit alive.

the real question is: why do you want to add MORE speakers to the car? need more volume?, need more "thump"?, need more mids/clarity?
answer that question FIRST and then i can help steer you in the most cost effective direction for your goals.

[rockin86ranger]

Need more volume and thump, pretty big interior to fill. I already have the 6.5s because I them for my Dakota which doesn't get driven much anymore so I am pulling them out of there otherwise I would probably just drop the money on a set of kickkers for the front and put a sub in and be done with it. The 2 6.5s can't really keep with the kickkers and having to fade to the rear for anything really bass intense kills the song. Plus I Want to give a shot at trying to make it look like a factory install with the door panels as a way to practice for more important projects.

[rockin86ranger]

Also when I had the same head unit adapted to the factory Dakota harness with the 4 6.5s the head unit would shut down if you pushed it to hard, speakers would take mores still no distortion at that point really but I. Haven't really had that problem with it in the taurus so that might have been an issue with the Dakotas wiring but I haven't been able to push the. Taurus really hard with both speakers because I haven't replaced one of the door speakers yet

[sketchman]

Wouldn't adding more speakers without adding more power give you less volume? Or at least less clarity? I don't know much about this. Just thinking out loud. I think I'd go for a cheapo eBay no name amp before I took the time to add more speakers even if I already had them.

[rockin86ranger]

That's why I was considering getting two smaller ~70 watt 2 channel amps to split the fronts with, then possibly adding one for the 6x9s if I still felt it necessary.

Audio isnt my strong point, I have done various simple install (replacing factory speakers and head units with aftermarket but this would be my first "custom" install.

[sketchman]

Seems common sense(at least mine) doesn't work here.

http://www.musiccenters.com/vol.html

Adding speakers does increase the volume(to a point) even without increasing power. That makes no sense to me, but that's what the article says.

[rockin86ranger]

It's going to fill better and therefore require less power which I feel would be ok 90% of the time but I am not sure how it will react to the 10% when I am playing around

[rmoltis]

Last vehicle I did this on.

Jeep Cherokee a bigger sized vehicle.

I added 2 extra speakers.

And it did not sound very good running off of a stock deck
Or head unit.
It used to give me headaches as well as ruin the sound quality.

Eventually I took Them out and realised how much better it sounded with just the four.

Your best bet is a 4 channel amp matched in power ratings (rms)
To your speakers (rms) rating.

And after hearing what they sound like properly powered
you won't want anymore than 4 speakers, or 4 sets of components.

[rockin86ranger]

I have never been a fan of factory head units from Chrysler, an aftermarket one is a major upgrade immediately. Also if it is set up "correctly" you won't have any noise issues. You don't get a 4speaker surround sound system you spring for 6,8,10 speaker setup because it's better

[FestYboy]

ok... reading this thread, things are getting muddied up...

Ranger, you want more volume and thump. there's no need to add speakers to a location in which you can't hear them. there IS a need to change your speakers though.
the rear speakers can be left where they are as they will be used for fill (not a main producer of sound).
Option1
Option2 (better)
Option3
option4
another potential option is Boston Acoustics component units, but there's nothing posted on the 'bay for them

then what you do is grab a decient 4 channel amp (i'm partial to Soundstream because they're very under rated)
run the component speakers high passed at 150Hz-220Hz through the amp, let the head unit run the 6x9s and on the left over 2 amp channels, BRIDGE them low passed at 85Hz to a 10" single sub in a sealed box. Example. i like kenwood and Pioneer because they are rather sensitive and can handle a fair amount of power.

also to clarify, adding 2 more speakers in series will net you "0" dB gain save for some random acoustic coupling within the cab.
Doubling the # of speakers per channel with NO change in total impedance will net you 3dB gain, but you can't do that in your situation without changing ALL of the speakers on that channel. adding a duplicate speaker to a channel in PARALLEL will gain you 6dB by doubling the # of speakers and ALSO halving the impedance of the circuit, but the amp won't like this and go into thermal shutdown. adding a duplicate speaker in SERIES will gain you "0" dB because, though you are doubling the # of speakers (+3dB), you're also doubling the inpedance to 8ohm (-3dB) and that cancles out the previous gain

[Gomez]

easiest way to add speakers to your rear doors is to tie them to the front door harnesses IN SERIES. that will keep your head unit alive.

the real question is: why do you want to add MORE speakers to the car? need more volume?, need more "thump"?, need more mids/clarity?
answer that question FIRST and then i can help steer you in the most cost effective direction for your goals.

^EXACTLY on both accounts. Reason for wanting more speakers must be known to properly answer the question.

To a VERY large degree sound quality will improve though volume won't be as loud.

The BEST overall sound quality systems I ever heard (I used to judge Sound quality in some very large competitions in the greater Ohio valley) had 6 speakers, 3 amps. It was 2 subs, 2 mid bass, and 2 highs. FREAKIN UNBELIEVABLE volume AND quality. What matters most is quality of install, not so much power and/or quality of components, in relation to what most people want out of an audio system. I built a system once with a 20 watt x 2 channel amplifier. Had amazing sound quality, volume, and yes even enough bass to hit 131 SPL. 1-12" sub, and a 6.5" component set properly placed in the car. installation of speakers must be spot on to do this.

Adding speakers in series to an existing amplifier only gives you more speakers when considering volume. Going from a 4 ohm circuit to an 8 ohm circuit, given perfect efficiency, will decrease power to 1/2, therefore canceling the doubling of power needed to create a 3db increase in output. Doubling speakers will only create a 3db increase if that 2nd speaker is given the same amount of power as the first.

Just about any aftermarket amplifier will have more "headroom" than any amplifier built into any factory /aftermarket head unit. With the same power output claimed the outboard amp will outperform the built-in just about every time. BUT wiring is crucial. The ground wire is actually more important than the Power wire. Opposite what most people think. As is the quality of ground contact. Phase cancellation is probably the main cause of poor volume and sound quality in any system. First off keep the rear wave of speaker output completely separate from the front. Especially in subwoofer systems and yes even in with midrange setup too.

My simple list of do's in system design goes like this.

Keep it simple, throw in as much power as you can (even overpowering In just about every case), install it correctly, and attention to detail WILL pay off in the end.

A dedicated amp for the sub would be recommended. A 6x9 inch speaker has a similar cone area as a 7" sub. Therefore the possibility of some decently strong bass IS possible with 2 of them even when used as a full range speaker. They like power. So I would go for a good solid 2 channel amp at minimum for the front doors and rear deck, with the speakers wired in parallel if it will handle 2 ohms in stereo mode. If possible go for a 4 channel amp with double the output of the mentioned 2 channel one to keep the same output levels but you will have the added pleasure of more control of your soundstage and overall listening environment. A single amp system can be done but a nicely designed 2 amp system is much easier and flexible.

Money doesn't matter so much. Stay within your budget but put some time into the install and you will be happy, I am sure of it.

[Gomez]

sorry Arty for pretty much a double post. I was typing as you posted and didn't realize.

BUT you did forget 1 thing. One little addition to your equation. Doubling the impedance from 4 to 8 will also half the power. so now both speakers are sharing half the power therefore giving 2 speakers 1/2 the power that 1 would have gotten in the first place.

[FestYboy]

right, which is where the +3dB gain gets cancled out from the addition of the second speaker on that channel. but then again, amps LIKE this arrangement.

or are you stating that since the circuit is now 8 ohm, and say, was putting out 50watts at 4 ohm, it's now at 25watts at 8 ohms and each speaker is now seeing 12.5watts thus creating a net loss of 3dB on that channel?

i always understood it as the series circuit is seen as a single load by the amp (now 8 ohm) and that the amp is still sending the original 50watts out but it's now split between the 2 speakers (25w per speaker). therefore gaining "0"dB.

[Gomez]

[QUOTE=FestYboy;619864]

or are you stating that since the circuit is now 8 ohm, and say, was putting out 50watts at 4 ohm, it's now at 25watts at 8 ohms and each speaker is now seeing 12.5watts thus creating a net loss of 3dB on that channel?

[QUOTE]

This is the way it was taught to me back in the day. Think of a 100% efficient amp. As impedance halves power doubles. Now go the other way. As impedance doubles power halves. But to a large degree that is kinda a good thing. Like you said sound quality is better and the amp is operating much easier. Think of a 100 watt output from an amp at .5 ohms on a single channel. Now think of a same brand and type of amp that also has a 100 watt output on a single channel but is operating at a 4 or 8 ohm load. Both are 100 watts but like you said sound is gonna be much better from the amp that will ultimately be operating more efficiently therefore cooler and with MUCH MUCH more headroom.

Now we enter your thought of the power output staying the same as impedance goes up. X-tant was, I believe, the first company to start doing this crap back in the 90's. Mainstream at least. Alpine really took it up a notch when they offered their high end stuff that output the same power from 4 ohms all the way down to .5 ohms. I love these little things. BUT most amps don't have that circuitry at least at affordable prices anyway. So We are both right. Just depends on the situation I guess. LOL

Man I could talk audio electronics all day. I love the crap. Well, installation just as much I guess. Good to talk to someone with understanding. You made my day. this is the most time I spent typing in months. Now my kids are getting antsy to go to My moms house. Gotta go. lol