turbo/supercharger Setup

[ch33z3x]

So, I was thinking of doing a supercharger setup, as well as a turbo. I saw it on an STI, It had an AMG I think and 2 Garrett 30's. Not very efficient in the few reviews i've heard. Anyway, I was thinking of doing a small supercharger and a big turbo on the bp block. I think with some stronger internals it could take the boost, So it's just a matter of setting it all up. On the new Ford SUper Duty trucks they have sequential twin turbos, thus where this idea came from. However, even though the supercharger would smooth out my torque and horsepower curves, as well as kill any boost lag, I couldn't figure out how the super charger would suplly air to the turbo at higher boost levels. I don't know if the supercharger would let air flow freely enough to feed a big turbo efficiently? I'm not talking Garret GT40 or anything, but something big for that particular block. Anyway, if i had some kind of one way valve in the piping between the supercharger and the turbo, to let air in and not out, attached to another air filter at one end, think it'd help? Hope the picture i made in paint isn't too confusing. I'm not artsy

[FB71]

this one is simple;

the SC and turbo have to be sized properly in order for this to work efficiently.

The SC would need to be a large displacement unit, say 115-130 cubic inch on a 1.6-1.8L engine. It would be pullied to provide low psi, but would deliver high volumes of air. Say a peak psi of 5-6. The turbo then increases the manifold pressure even further, aided by the volume produced by the SC. Basically, a small-ish turbo has a limited pressure differential it can reach, say 15-18psi from the inlet to the outlet. By increasing the inlet pressure to 5-6 psi, then boosting that by another 15-18psi, you yield a manifold pressure of 20-24psi, while minimizing lag, scavenging losses and parasitic crank loss.

[FB71]

by the way, this is not a new idea; Supras and Maseratis (the dreaded Bi-Turbo!!) had it years ago.

[sasquatch]

isnt having a turbo and a supercharger on the same motor called "twin-charging"? anyways i have an awesome vid that even wants me to "twin-charge" my festiva... and i HATE superchargers.....

look at the boost gauge when he revs it up, it hits 1bar (14.2 psi )(i think) no load on the motor!!!!

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=3WLj-gv5sUY

and a road test

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=FG0uxjtg6yQ&feature=related

it is my fav sounding car on youtube!!!! you have to hear it!!!!

[ketchup]

it is called twin charging and the turbo forces through the supercharger. the supercharger builds boost low down where its efficient which makes the turbo spool quicker and lets you run a larger than normal turbo once it spools the SC doesnt do much at all. you dont add the boost together..its like running a sequential twin turbo setup a larger turbo forces through a smaller turbo.. the small turbo spools first then peaks in its efficiency right as the larger turbo spools and shoves a ton more air down the little guys throat. just cause the little one cant push as much air doesnt mean it cant flow more air though it...

[festivaWES]

I'd probably go with a eaton M45...what the mini coopers had and a basic t3/t4 turbo 45 trim. Both units compare eachother

[ketchup]

i bet the minis charger is pricy you could get on for a gtp grand prix rebuilt on ebay for 150 might be a little large.... you know what go big or go home..

[festivaWES]

Bahhh i can get a mini one cheap!

[ch33z3x]

it is called twin charging and the turbo forces through the supercharger. the supercharger builds boost low down where its efficient which makes the turbo spool quicker and lets you run a larger than normal turbo once it spools the SC doesnt do much at all. you dont add the boost together..its like running a sequential twin turbo setup a larger turbo forces through a smaller turbo.. the small turbo spools first then peaks in its efficiency right as the larger turbo spools and shoves a ton more air down the little guys throat. just cause the little one cant push as much air doesnt mean it cant flow more air though it...

I get that, the thing is, there's probably goning to be resistance in the small turbo or supercharger when the big turbo spools. I look at it like sucking air through a straw. I'm the big turbo, and the straw is the little turbo. It's eaiser with more flow in the straw, hence the piping between the turbo and the super and some sort of one way valve.

[FB71]

you dont add the boost together.....

that greatly depends upon on the sizing and sequencing. The way he has his setup drawn, the SC would suppliment the inlet pressure to the turbo. That allows the turbo to compress the incoming air even further. Remember, we're working with pressure differential.

[Kraig]

If you use a "smallish" turbo it will end up being an exhaust restriction...better to feed the supercharger with the turbo than the other way around...sc for low end, turbos for top end. Waaay to complicated though. A well sized turbo can give enough boost to blow your motor apart so what's the point of all the complexity? As far as turbo lag..power shift...or use an automatic....if you don't lift there is no lag!

[ch33z3x]

... Uh. Yeah. I like my car. GTX trannies don't hold together that well to begin with. I'm beefing it up if I can, but really. I dunno. Just throwing idea's out and trying to learn,.

[ch33z3x]

So what do you guys no about bp's and t3/t4 turbos? What's the boost curve like? What kinda manifolds work?

[muscle_Car1]

So what do you guys no about bp's and t3/t4 turbos? What's the boost curve like? What kinda manifolds work?

Which ones?

Thats like saying:
What do you guys like about michelin tires? Whats the wear? What kinda rims work?

And as said before its called twincharging. Group n rally cars had it in the late 80's.
And as also said before mazda trans kind suck when overpowering beyond 150% stock

[ch33z3x]

I know Mazda Trans suck. That's a work in progress. I actually didn't know there were a bunch of different t3/t4's. That's why I asked.
I know it's twincharging now dude, I was wondering about just the turbo