5 angle and PNP?

[91_festy_Gl]

I have a B8 engine that is still sitting in a protege awaiting to be pulled but in the mean time I need to load up on some info. I have all winter to build this engine and there are a few things I want to do to it. First of all im not swapping to a DOHC head. Im staying SOHC for a few reasons. I know what kind of power these engines put down stock but what kind of power do you guys think it would produce with a 5 angle and a complete port and polish? I also thought about making a intake manifold spacer and a TB spacer. I will be using a e-series tranny with a hefty clutch so im not to worried about the drive train holding.

I have all winter to build this SOHC engine so im basically looking for some good insight or possibly some ideas on how some of you guys would build it. Anything to fill my head with ideas will be great.

Oh ya i'm not turbo charging it either. I wanna see how much HP I can get out of a N/A engine.

Fire away fellas!

[crazyrog17]

I thought more valves = more horse power at WOT. Why not just stick with the dohc?

[iceracerdude]

Where are you at that you can get a 5 angle, and do you know of a good porting guy, or are you attempting to do that part yourself?
I just did fresh pistons and rings and had my head redone (3 angle) and I can definately feel the difference for sure, which kind of surprised me.
I've got a blower on mine so the port efficiency is really moot. Pressure ftw.

[91_festy_Gl]

I thought more valves = more horse power at WOT. Why not just stick with the dohc?

Cause I dont feel like hunting down a head and all that BS. The B8 puts down plenty of power as it is. The 16 valve B8 has the same amount of valves as the DOHC minus a cam, and thats what I have.

[91_festy_Gl]

Where are you at that you can get a 5 angle, and do you know of a good porting guy, or are you attempting to do that part yourself?
I just did fresh pistons and rings and had my head redone (3 angle) and I can definately feel the difference for sure, which kind of surprised me.
I've got a blower on mine so the port efficiency is really moot. Pressure ftw.

Local machine shop can do 5 angles and PNP. He also polishes cranks, balances and blue prints, and builds race engines. There is alot more he can do aswell with enough cash. Turbo might be a option later down the road but id rather not. I want to keep this engine reliable. I wish there was a way to stroke this B8.

[Aaronbrook37]

If you're really wanting to put some serious cash into a non-turbo build - which is perfectly respectable, this is what you need:

Individual throttle bodies with a custom intake manifold assembly - will make this thing scream, flow like nothing else, and perform amazingly well. As iceracer explains, your head porting can't really be maximized without a matched up intake system or pressure or both. Since no boost, you need a maximized intake system. ITBs is the way to do that.

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1191757

http://forums.evolutionm.net/lancer-engine-tech/241327-diy-individual-throttle-body-setup.html

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/61956-diy-itb-turbo-intake-manifold/

http://www.rossmachineracing.com/intakepartspage.html

http://hybrids.jp/forum/showthread.php?p=159347

http://www.d-series.org/forums/engine-building/2957-d-series-org-diy-itb-thread-print.html

In terms of the top end, you also will need some stuff to make the PNP and 5-angle work. Firstly, a big cam - lift and duration need to be increased to crank out more power from the PNP. Second, strong hardware - bigger valves, beefy springs, etc. Definitely a hot tank and some heavy machining, perhaps some performance heat coating.

On the bottom end, you should consider a full rebuild in terms of rings, bearings, etc. Look into rods from the turbo 1.8's, I'm pretty sure they are compatible with the SOHC block and hardware. With the types of mods you're doing to crank out power from an N/A SOHC motor, raising the rev-limiter is inevitably going to play a role. You could also get some custom high compression pistons for it, and make into more of a Honda-style screamer. This raises your octane requirement obviously.

Exhaust is pretty straight forward. You need a great-flowing, high-performing exhaust manifold, high flow catalytic converter, and some decently-sized (2.25"-2.5") piping, depending on whether it's crush-bent or mandrel-bent. Pop in a quiet but high-flowing muffler, and you'll be looking at quite the powerhouse.

Getting beyond 160HP cannot be done cheaply with an SOHC non-turbo motor. You'll need high-compression, you'll need at least one custom manifold, and you'll need to raise the rev limiter as well. If you went big with ITBs, a fully-built head, high-comp rebuilt bottom end, full exhaust, and good support network (aka intake stuff, cooling, fuel, etc) you could be looking at 150WHP or more without a second cam and without boost/nitrous.

I have seen 1.8L SOHC Mirages hit 200WHP without ITBs and without boost/nitrous, but these were all very high compression, very built heads, and ridiculous budgets. AKA close to 9000RPM.

[iceracerdude]

What itb's are you recommending?

[Aaronbrook37]

What itb's are you recommending?

Not exactly sure what you're asking. The advantage of SOHC with ITBs is that there's more room for TBs first off as you'll well know.

GSX-R ones are cheap and plentiful. The CBR Honda ones aren't too bad either. Basically motorcycle-sourced ones is the way to go, at least on a budget. With or without velocity stacks, plenum, individual filters... it's really depending on the application.

[sasquatch]

^ dont forget with ITB's you will need a standalone ecu cause you wont be able to use the VAF meter... unless you make a box overtop of all the inlets and have them draw the air thru the meter... but then your not ganna use them to the max that they can flow... i dought you would gain any HP when using the VAF...

also i dont know if it will fit the b8 but i think it will (re-search it before you buy it) you could stick in a set of miata 10-1 CR pistons and up the CR of the motor... you can get them on rock auto for like 80 bucks IIRC

[Aaronbrook37]

^ dont forget with ITB's you will need a standalone ecu cause you wont be able to use the VAF meter... unless you make a box overtop of all the inlets and have them draw the air thru the meter... but then your not ganna use them to the max that they can flow... i dought you would gain any HP when using the VAF...

also i dont know if it will fit the b8 but i think it will (re-search it before you buy it) you could stick in a set of miata 10-1 CR pistons and up the CR of the motor... you can get them on rock auto for like 80 bucks IIRC

If he's doing a 5 angle valve job and professional engine work, a standalone fuel management system shouldn't be out of the budget. At least... that's what I figure haha.

[sasquatch]

the standalone by itself broke my budget lol...

[91_festy_Gl]

Great this is exactly what im looking for. My mind is churning ideas like crazy, but what I really want to know is how you guys would build a B8. Turbo or non turbo either way. I have thought about adding a turbo since it would be way cheaper for 50hp then spending 5k for the same amount of HP. Basically Im looking for the most power on a SOHC B8. If I go turbo I plan on building the bottom end and top end either way. The 5 angle and PNP is a for sure though.

[Aaronbrook37]

Turbo it. A 14B would be a great turbo for 175-225HP, and would spool fine. Readily available. This way, you won't have to change your intake manifold setup with radical fuel management and such. Look at Greg/Eurotiva's fuel management system... totally manageable with an FMU.

When you decide what you want, click on the horsepower/turbo calculation link in my signature and I'll run the numbers for you.

[91_festy_Gl]

Turbo it. A 14B would be a great turbo for 175-225HP, and would spool fine. Readily available. This way, you won't have to change your intake manifold setup with radical fuel management and such. Look at Greg/Eurotiva's fuel management system... totally manageable with an FMU.

When you decide what you want, click on the horsepower/turbo calculation link in my signature and I'll run the numbers for you.

Thanks man. Ok so far here is my turbo setup if I do in fact go this way.

ARP head studs
copper HG
td04 aka 14b or possibly a 16g
rebuilt bottom end
rebuilt top end
PNP
5 angle
custom log style manifold
2.25" mandrel bent exhaust minus cat and muffler
megasquirt stand alone

Crap I forgot to factor in the tranny. No way is the festy tranny gonna hold this. Ok well anyways this is a engine list. G-series tranny is a must forsure though.

Thats just a short list so far. I have more to add to it but all that will be custom. Im also thinking about a SMIM. Its not a must but would look cool.