Toyota E153 trans swap discussion

[Basement_Modder]

I have found this build thread and this how-to by 'therieldeal' on CP.com.

It looks like an interesting swap, but I have 2 concerns with it-

1- CV axles: The shortest ones (which he used) barely fit an escort GT driveline... so HOW would they ever fit a festiva? Custom axles? Cut shorter and re-weld (not as strong, may not be perfectly straight)? He mentioned something in the thread about reversing the inner CV joints shortening them a little bit...

2- Steering rack: It would have to be somehow moved out of the way of the tranny, as it is a few inches bigger than the G25MR, which barely clears the rack. I think, since it has a cable shifter linkage, the engine/ trans assembly should be mounted higher in the engine bay, as to clear it better. Thoughts?

Discuss.

[Nerd Racing]

the trans barely fits between the frame rails in the protege, they have to clearance it, what chance does it have of fitting between the festy rails? I have a protege and the bay is way wider.

[Basement_Modder]

I'm not sure, but my thoughts are that, if it needs to be done, there's a way. Maybe boxing in the frame for the engine on the left and moving it really far over, than doing the same for the trans on the right?

Edit- the protege has a frontal width of 5.49', the festiva is 5.27', so there's only 2(3/4)" more clearance under the hood. I think it can be done.

[IdealSociety]

bah, too much work to keep under the hood imo. stuff it in the rear

[anomoly40]

Id say do it. Then tell us how. Right now its backwards.

[Bert]

If you're willing to go to that amount of trouble at least the Kawasaki 3.0 SHO engine swaps have been done before and then maybe someone like Jay Leno would show an interest in getting another Festy.

[Aaronbrook37]

If you're willing to go to that amount of trouble at least the Kawasaki 3.0 SHO engine swaps have been done before and then maybe someone like Jay Leno would show an interest in getting another Festy.

Agreed, but Yamaha instead of Kawasaki. 川崎 makes motorcycles and 山は makes SHO motors. Kawasaki transliterates to "river point" and Yamaha transliterates to "the kiss of life mountain." Kawasaki is an industrial suburb of Tokyo as well. More directly, Kawasaki may translate to fork or estuary whereas Yamaha would be something along the lines of idyllic mountains or blissful mountain range.

[Basement_Modder]

bah, too much work to keep under the hood imo. stuff it in the rear

If I was going to do that then I might as well just do a SHO (or similar V6) swap. I want ultimate sleeper, but one that won't always need a spare tranny in the garage.

[Aaronbrook37]

I want ultimate sleeper, but one that won't always need a spare tranny in the garage.

I have a slightly unorthodox solution to this problem. For Monday-Friday commuting, I won't need 16PSI from my forthcoming B6T swap. It's pointless to run that much boost in traffic and stop-and-go traffic anyway. I realize you're unlikely to ever actually hit full boost in the city given throttle position and gear position, but it's still an option if you get angry/greedy/open road. And I don't want the temptations for the safety of road-users around me and the reality that I'm a young 20-something male. Accident and lawsuit waiting to happen... I know myself well enough to realize that. My thought is this:

I'm going to fabricate/run an adjustable wastegate on my VJ11/14 that is tapped and drilled to intentionally under-boost my turbo. That way, at 100% throttle, I'll have boost restricted sufficiently for day-to-day grocery getting and maintaining fuel economy, life in my wear parts, and still have the placebo thrill of pedal to the metal. In this sense, my "two step boost controller" would not be based on different gears... but instead on different driving scenarios. This way, I could maintain traction, control, and power delivery at 100% throttle.

This extra peace of mind for my tires, clutch, and transmission will ensure that on those times where I do actually require power and boost (highways, towing, track racing), my parts will be able to handle 14-16PSI that a boost controller would demand/request of my motor. My goal would be to have a motor that flows so well (with modifications to control heat and maximize flow/efficiency) that I could actually make as much power from an underboosted B6T as an OEM one would... which would mean 45MPG and 13's could be possible at the flick of a switch. With enough R+D put into designing intake, exhaust, and heat control parts... I think it's a reasonable goal.

And ultimately it gives me the versatility that an ultimate sleeper should have. This is also the solution to my predicament in picking between 15x6.5 and 15x8 along with the corresponding tires. Using the adjustable waste-gate arm and a low-enough gear ratio, 15x6.5/195-205mm becomes plenty of tread for controlled driving with a sticky enough compound.

[nitrofarm]

bah, too much work to keep under the hood imo. stuff it in the rear

Yes! Us Midwesterners think alike.My sawsall is calling my name!

If you're willing to go to that amount of trouble at least the Kawasaki 3.0 SHO engine swaps have been done before and then maybe someone like Jay Leno would show an interest in getting another Festy.

Yes and no Bert the Sho was a GREAT choice at the time.But now we have much better choices. Parts are pricey for the SHO stuff. Ztec or Duratec,the new 2.3 is a ringer.Look what kinda power they are getting on the Focus threads. I'm thinking Ztec w/atx in the rear & Bp 5spd with LSD diff in the front. I've already got the throttle syncronization figured out.It will be all by wire. I can map throtlle opening/closing points in milli seconds. Ive got 95% of the parts in my garage already. Youll even be able to Rev the 5spd motor without reving the atx motor in back (at stop light etc). I've got my Bp & G series.Now just need a suitable engine for the rear. I like the Votech thats in the GM mini trucks. Lots of power,solid atx & lots of parts availability.Yes I know I'm crazy,but that keeps me from going insane.

[Bert]

Well at least you 'gear heads' keep life interesting by tangling with projects that would stymie an ordinary Joe like me.

[Rocketman]

I have a slightly unorthodox solution to this problem. For Monday-Friday commuting, I won't need 16PSI from my forthcoming B6T swap. It's pointless to run that much boost in traffic and stop-and-go traffic anyway. I realize you're unlikely to ever actually hit full boost in the city given throttle position and gear position, but it's still an option if you get angry/greedy/open road. And I don't want the temptations for the safety of road-users around me and the reality that I'm a young 20-something male. Accident and lawsuit waiting to happen... I know myself well enough to realize that. My thought is this:

The best boost control is your foot. I see people, time and time again wanting dual boost levels for their setups, spending $money$ on two-stage MBC's and other fancy boost control devices. (for most of the reasons you've mentioned above, and more) I was there myself at one point, infact I still have a dual stage MBC in my car. It's disconnected. I only use one stage of it. And that how the majority of them end up.

I'm going to fabricate/run an adjustable wastegate on my VJ11/14 that is tapped and drilled to intentionally under-boost my turbo. That way, at 100% throttle, I'll have boost restricted sufficiently for day-to-day grocery getting and maintaining fuel economy, life in my wear parts, and still have the placebo thrill of pedal to the metal. In this sense, my "two step boost controller" would not be based on different gears... but instead on different driving scenarios. This way, I could maintain traction, control, and power delivery at 100% throttle.

It's not really possible to underboost a turbo with the methods you've mentioned. The wastegate is operated by a diaphragm & spring, and unless you are adding pressurized air from an outside source you will not get it to open earlier, or stay open. And it's totally unnecessary. A VJ14/11 will not cause excessive wear or reliability issues, the B6T is built plenty for it. Regarding economy: When you go WOT, the ECU dumps in a lot of fuel. It's programmed to go pig rich. Why not go fast when doing it? (yes, it will used some more fuel under higher boost, but IRL it's negligable) The TL;DR: placebo WOT is still going to suck down fuel, even if you aren't boosting fully

This extra peace of mind for my tires, clutch, and transmission will ensure that on those times where I do actually require power and boost (highways, towing, track racing), my parts will be able to handle 14-16PSI that a boost controller would demand/request of my motor. My goal would be to have a motor that flows so well (with modifications to control heat and maximize flow/efficiency) that I could actually make as much power from an underboosted B6T as an OEM one would... which would mean 45MPG and 13's could be possible at the flick of a switch. With enough R+D put into designing intake, exhaust, and heat control parts... I think it's a reasonable goal.

A VJ14/11 is nowhere near a threat to a G-Type, unless you are doing burnouts away from every stoplight and stopsign... Brad was hitting 48mpg on a stock B6T without anything too special done, again, regulating the throttle is your best chance at economy here.

And ultimately it gives me the versatility that an ultimate sleeper should have. This is also the solution to my predicament in picking between 15x6.5 and 15x8 along with the corresponding tires. Using the adjustable waste-gate arm and a low-enough gear ratio, 15x6.5/195-205mm becomes plenty of tread for controlled driving with a sticky enough compound.

You can have a sleeper no problem, but there's no need for elaborate 2-stage everything on it. It's unnecessary & cumbersome, looks good on paper but does not function well IRL.

My 2¢
-Rocket

[Aaronbrook37]

The best boost control is your foot. I see people, time and time again wanting dual boost levels for their setups, spending $money$ on two-stage MBC's and other fancy boost control devices. (for most of the reasons you've mentioned above, and more) I was there myself at one point, infact I still have a dual stage MBC in my car. It's disconnected. I only use one stage of it. And that how the majority of them end up.

It's not really possible to underboost a turbo with the methods you've mentioned. The wastegate is operated by a diaphragm & spring, and unless you are adding pressurized air from an outside source you will not get it to open earlier, or stay open. And it's totally unnecessary. A VJ14/11 will not cause excessive wear or reliability issues, the B6T is built plenty for it. Regarding economy: When you go WOT, the ECU dumps in a lot of fuel. It's programmed to go pig rich. Why not go fast when doing it? (yes, it will used some more fuel under higher boost, but IRL it's negligable) The TL;DR: placebo WOT is still going to suck down fuel, even if you aren't boosting fully


A VJ14/11 is nowhere near a threat to a G-Type, unless you are doing burnouts away from every stoplight and stopsign... Brad was hitting 48mpg on a stock B6T without anything too special done, again, regulating the throttle is your best chance at economy here.


You can have a sleeper no problem, but there's no need for elaborate 2-stage everything on it. It's unnecessary & cumbersome, looks good on paper but does not function well IRL.

My 2¢
-Rocket

I realize this has gone really off topic, but I don't really care all that much. It's still related to gearbox strength to some degree haha.

Wow... Matt, you're a machine. Thank you so much for the help on this perspective... really means a ton to me. You had my respect and future business before... now you've got a heck of a lot more. Thank you for your fantastic insight. My thoughts:

I think it may be wiser to just have some willpower and be my own boost controller on OEM levels. After all, with a light foot and low revs, my car will barely ever break into boost in the first place. And you're right... it's going to dump fuel regardless, so why not just keep it simple stupid and work with OEM levels. A single boost controller, a single level Monday-to-Friday (whatever a VJ14/11 puts out stock), and an easy dial turn if I really need some weekend fun.

I have no intention of doing burnouts period. Fantastic to hear that Brad is putting out those sorts of numbers... that's exactly what I want from mine. To know that is feasible on a stock motor means I'll probably shoot for 50 with a variety of hacks, tweaks, and mods.

Still doing more research in particular on minimizing IATs with DIY phenolic spacers, water/alky/meth injection, and large intercoolers with insulated piping. At the end of the day though, it'll all come down to engine bay airflow and maximizing the basics of fuel economy. It always comes down to the simple stuff at the end of the day.

I have much more confidence in the G-series than I did yesterday knowing that even a decked-out VJ11 hybrid won't pose a risk without really testerownage driving tactics. Cheers mate.

[bhazard]

Fantastic to hear that Brad is putting out those sorts of numbers...

Is? Was

Ive only managed 36mpg out of my BPT

I miss B3 mpg.

[Basement_Modder]

Another thing that would be cool is a dual-intake system. It could be connected to the intercooler or just straight N/A air. If there was a simple way around this, I'd be all over it.