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screw gas! I want to convert to propain or something

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  • screw gas! I want to convert to propain or something

    My question is what preasure and flow rate should it be regulated at? I can work out all the regulator issues with needing it to regulate. I just need some info about preasures and flow like at idle and WOT. any one got any ideas?

  • #2
    No clue.

    Propane also likes high compression engines.

    Here's some fun reading I just found with google.com

    www.dantheoilman.com
    AMSOIL dealer and window tinter.
    Trust me folks, you need www.auto-rx.com
    Go ahead and ask me why

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    • #3
      dude, forget lpg/cng. I teach alt fuels for Ford, and those fuels suck! They're fairly clean, but lpg has about 1/5 the btu's of gasoline. Which means you go through 5 times more fuel! A gas Crown Vic uses 19 lb/hr injectors, and cng Crown Vic uses 90 lb/hr! The fuel tanks are also triple the size, but you only go about half the distance. A gas Crown Vic runs about 320 miles on a tank (16 gal), and cng car runs about 190 miles on a fill-up.
      Jim DeAngelis

      kittens give Morbo gas!!



      Bright Blue 93 GL (1.6 8v, 5spd) (Hula-Baloo)
      Performance Red 94 Aspire SE (Stimpson)

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      • #4
        Call a suicide help line! Converting to propane isn't that the equivalent of driving a bomb
        I will NOT drive a minivan

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        • #5
          Heh, you called it "ProPain". I like that.

          Comment


          • #6
            if youn teach alt fuela at ford you would know that you are wrong.

            while it is true that propane has less btu's per gallon compared to petrol or diesel, it is also true that propane costs 1/2 of what petrol or diesel does. therefore, according to EPA.GOV propane gets about the same miles per DOLLAR compared to gasoline.

            cng on the other hand, gets about twice as many miles per dollar.

            note that all of this info is from the epa.

            Comment


            • #7
              I know exactly what the EPA and FoMoCo say.... Yes, you are correct in the miles per dollar calculations. My point was that neither CNG nor LPG offered a significant advantage over gasoline, due to the increased frequency of fill-ups and cost of conversion. Are you aware that both CNG and LPG take longer to fill the tanks than gasoline? CNG can be pushed into an empty tank up to approximately 80% capacity in about 10-15 minutes. The last 20% takes an addition 6-8 hours. Also, lower temperatures increase the required fill time. This is why southern government agencies and commercial customers don't have as many concerns with alt fuels as their northern counterparts do. I instruct fleet technicians for NJ Turnpike/State Police, PennDOT, PSE&G, FBI/Secret Service, the US Treasury, as well as dealer technicians. Ask the NJ State Police what they think of their CNG Interceptors.... They can't wait to get rid of them. Fill frequency and fill time are unacceptable. They've been relegated to motor pool axillary and command car usage. None of the Troopers care for them. PSE&G and PennDOT run them to satisfy the feds and find them to inconvenient and not anymore cost effective than gas trucks. Same with the FBI and their interceptors. The Treasury only runs to keep the EPA happy. Some of these agencies are investigating hybrids as a viable replacement.

              If you really want an alternative fuel, what about diesel? Get that little 1.3 up to about 17:1 compression ratio.... small turbo.... bet you'd get about 60 mpg.

              By the way Crypto.... these are only my personal opinions

              and the next time you challenge someone, you may want to use the spell check......
              Jim DeAngelis

              kittens give Morbo gas!!



              Bright Blue 93 GL (1.6 8v, 5spd) (Hula-Baloo)
              Performance Red 94 Aspire SE (Stimpson)

              Comment


              • #8
                HappyMom,

                That's a common misconception about CNG/LPG and Hydrogen. The tanks required by NHTSA are capable of withstanding a high power rifle round at point-blank range without rupturing. I've actually seen tanks recovered from vehicle wrecks that were in near perfect condition, while the rest of the car was barely recognizable. They also have safety blow-off valves to vent the fuel at a controlled rate in case of fire. This make a wonderful plume of flame, and any vehicle parked to that side of the vehicle will look like Cajun chicken (blackened), but it will not explode. Honestly, you're probably safer in a CNG/LPG car than a gasoline car... (with regards to fire)
                Jim DeAngelis

                kittens give Morbo gas!!



                Bright Blue 93 GL (1.6 8v, 5spd) (Hula-Baloo)
                Performance Red 94 Aspire SE (Stimpson)

                Comment


                • #9
                  fb71 you are again wrong. according to the epa CNG gets twice the miles per DOLLAR compared to petrol.

                  who cares of it takes longer to refill, or you need to refill more often, its TWICE as cost efficent.
                  a cng conversion pays for its self quickly through the cost of fuel savings.
                  you can say whatever you want but you cannot argue with epa.


                  oph, and spel check sucks. jajajajaja

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    well looks like i was right when saying propain cause it is a slightly painfull subject. I don't wanna say any one is wrong or right cause i don't know jack about alt. fuels. However I do know FB is a knowledgable guy, and was trained to teach ford techs.... So ask a question or 2, or provide a web site b4 you try to discredit him please. As far as a gasious fuel goes, couldn't it be converted to run right into a port on the intake, and shut the injectors off? use a vac. controlled regulator to controll the flow going in. Cause once it starts it will still need a A/F ratio but different from petro... So it still needs mixed. keep the air box and all tweak the A/F ratio, and adjust the regulator to provide enough flow to keep a hungry engine running? would that be one way to go? that way I could have the option of petro or something else? And btw if u don't smoke in the blimp hydrogen is safe ;-)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CryptokiD
                      fb71 you are again wrong. according to the epa CNG gets twice the miles per DOLLAR compared to petrol.

                      who cares of it takes longer to refill, or you need to refill more often, its TWICE as cost efficent.
                      a cng conversion pays for its self quickly through the cost of fuel savings.
                      you can say whatever you want but you cannot argue with epa.


                      oph, and spel check sucks. jajajajaja
                      Like I said the first time, I'm not disagreeing with you about miles per dollar. I know CNG is less costly per mile. My point was that, for me, the cost of conversion and the increase in fill-ups was/is unacceptable. That, and the performance of CNG vehicles absolutely sucks. And I care that it takes longer to refill, I have better things to do with my time. And remember where the person who originally started this inquiry lives. Ohio is not always the most tepid state. Three words, "lake effect snow". I am merely pointing out the shortcomings of these fuel systems so that anyone considering the conversion can make a more educated decision. And quite frankly, I can argue with the EPA. Many researchers have found significant flaws with their statements about various subjects. Remember, they're a government agency, who, in order to maintain funding, find and publish research and data that supports the opinions of the person that signs their checks. Additionally, what they tout as "accurate" data can be changed by political lobbyists on behalf of different industries, usually the one producing the fuel. Being prior military, I've learned not to trust any government agency any further than I can throw them.

                      Now, back to rotinaj13's original question... Yes, you can make this dedicated CNG or Bi-Fueled. OEM CNG fuel systems utilize the fuel injection system to precisely meter the CNG into the intake runners, just as it would gasoline. In OEM bi-fuel vehicles, there is changover valve that permits the switching between gasoline and CNG. In aftermarket conversions, the fuel system can be fully replaced with a CNG carburator, which is simply a venturi and pressure regulator that takes input from throttle angle. Quite frankly, I'm not terribly familiar with the aftermarket systems. However, I can tell you that what you interested in doing is commonly done and should be readily available.

                      Lastly, where would you fuel up? There is no CNG or LPG refueling infrastructure in the Philadelphia area. In order to fuel my CNG Crown Vic and my Bi-Fuel F150, I have to call PSE&G by Temple University and request permission and time to fill. Filling these two vehicles takes me and one co-worker all day in cold weather.

                      By the way Crypto, not being smart, what is your background? Where, other than the EPA website, are you getting your info. I'd like to review it myself. If I am wrong, then Ford Motor Company is wrong. I've been regurgitating here the info given to me by Ford to present to my technicians. I take pride in my job, and do not want to propagate incorrect information.
                      Jim DeAngelis

                      kittens give Morbo gas!!



                      Bright Blue 93 GL (1.6 8v, 5spd) (Hula-Baloo)
                      Performance Red 94 Aspire SE (Stimpson)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Look CryptoKid, I don't know if you see it yet but the rest of us do. You are arguing an entirely different point and use it to think someone else is wrong.

                        How many times does he have to tell you he isn't talking about dollars per mile? Yet that is the facts you claim he is wrong on. Okay, let me spell it out for you ... how could he be wrong if he hasn't said anything about it? Well except once when he said he agreed with you, and then you said it was wrong -- here's your sign.

                        You had good information to share, but you went way to far with it. You presumed some kind of superiority for it. Hmm, I recognize the tactic. I suggest The Daily Kos for your people who appreciate strawmen like yours.

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                        • #13
                          Well I knew I was talking about highly flammible gas(s) but dang i didn't know I was starting a combustible topic. Like I said I am not saying any one is wrong, And I welcome both points of view. I know where Jim gets his point, Ford. However I love to read, And I have a few other ppl involved in this topic outside of the board, that I have been discussing this with. If you offer opposing views on something please offer some back ground on where you obtained this information, So I have more stable ground to stand on. Like Jim is a ford service tech, teacher, who deals with alt. fuels for instructing techs. If for instance you are a green peace inventor working on the next hindinburg please offer that as a back ground, so your ideas can not be easily over looked or dismissed in a your wrong i'm right cat and mouse game. Thany you. BTW my intensions with this post is not to step on toes or lecture any one, just to get sound info for myself and others. THANKS!

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                          • #14
                            Some advantages to alternative fuels here in Houston are that it's easier to get past inspection, and you are allowed to drive in the HOV lane without having anyone else in your vehicle. These can be big advantages.

                            The main problem I see with converting a Festiva is that it's a bit underpowered to begin with, and unless you up the compression ratio to take advantage of the conversion, you will be left with less power. Personally, if I were considering this conversion, I'd do a B6 swap at the same time. It would probably be a "break even" thing when it comes to power.

                            As far as driving a bomb, well, gasoline vapor is a bomb as well, and the tank is a whole lot flimsier...
                            1990 LX Mostly Stock

                            1996 Impala SS, Not Stock

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                            • #15
                              Ok I am doing a little math If I can figure this stuff out... If I have persay 60 Lb/Hr injector's. How would I change that into something more usefull... such as gallions... I guess what I am getting down to is there a way to predict how many gallons a min or hour or what ever will it take to power my car with no load at 3000 rpm?!?! Thank you for your help!!!!

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