1.1L final drive guts

[F3BZ]

referring to the illustration below. i was going through the kia parts book and noticed that the only parts that are different between the 1.1L transmission gear train and the 1.3L gear train is the OUTPUT GEAR and the FINAL DRIVE GEAR. these parts are available from 4GREEN for the 1.1L trans and i was wondering, do you think these gears might give a lower final drive ratio to give a little more pep to the 51HP 1.1L? there's no information in the parts book as to the number of teeth on these parts. i might order the cheaper of the 2 to get a count of the teeth. does anybody know how many teeth are on the festiva 1.3L trans output gear? i figure installing the 1.1L parts will either give a lower or higher final drive ratio to the 1.3L trans. faster acceleration or better fuel economy for about $110 worth of bolt in parts. thoughts?

[F3BZ]

after a little more in depth reading on the automobile catalog site that gives specs for almost every car in the world, i couldn't find one pride 1.1L that came with anything other than a 4SPD as a manual offering so i don't know why kia parts books show a 5th gear cog for a 1.1L. regardless, using the same site, it shows the final drive ratio to be the same 3.78 for both 5 and 4 SPD trans in the earlier prides. as to be expected, this is the same FD ratio in our U S festivas. but what is worth looking into is that the later (2000) pride 5SPD had a 4.06 FD, maybe because they were becoming heavier than the early cars. this is a very interesting site. someone posted a link to it earlier in another thread. according to some of the specs, some prides were rated at 72HP using the same B3 SOHC engine.

[bhazard]

That 4.06 final is probably the same as the aspire trans. And the 72 HP is because they didn't have all the emissions regulations we have.

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[sketchman]

Doesn't the rio trans have more grunt in the gears? Seems like that would be easier than ripping apart the trans and changing gears.

[F3BZ]

i wanted to stick with the festiva trans because i have a phantom grip kit for it. would that work in the rio trans? but your right, i went through the shop manual out of curiosity and there is a helluva lot of work getting out the differential.

[zoom zoom]

^ it's really not that hard, do it once or twice and it won't take 20 minutes to swap one out. Just gotta be careful with the detent balls and the pins are tricky to get back in, sometimes. Harbor freight punch set will go a long way lol.

Having held rio, E and G series diffs in my hands I can tell you the carrier is much smaller in the e series, so I doubt it will work.

[tderonne]

I have a 4.38 E series gearset out in the garage. From Europe somewhere, 1.1 121. Cost a lot more than $110, is that for both gears?

http://www.cars-data.com/en/mazda-121-1.1-l-specs/20805

[F3BZ]

your post reply got me to research some more. i wasn't aware the 121 1.1L came with a 5 spd. all the 1.1L kia prides that are listed show them as a 4 spd. only even though the parts books show part#s for a 1.1L 5 spd. i thought there might be a mistake in the parts books but maybe that combination is just not listed in the auto data sites. a 4.38 FD would be even more smoke! the complete differential from 4GREEN is about $98 and the output gear is about $27. a little more than i said but not much.

[ChrisDrives121DA]

Long time no posting here...

As far as my research goes, the 1.1L (B1) E5M-R Transmission differs from the B3 transmission in regards of the 4. gear ratio.
According to Mazda´s 121 workshop manual from 1988 the particular 4th gear ratios are:
B1 0,914
B3 0,861


Furthermore I´ve compared the ratios (5Speed manual) in my festiva, Pride and 121DA Literature, showing the same 1st 2nd 3rd and 5th gear ratios gearing for all 3 types.
(source: 1995 Pride (german), 1988 121DA and 1991 festiva workshop manuals)



differential ratios:
Mazda distinguishes three differential gear ratios:
B3 ECE/ENGLAND 4,058
B3 Swiss/sweden 3,777
B1 4,375

1995 Pride manual (german) only refers to the 3,777 differential and excludes the B1 engine variant as well.
(I am not 100% sure but seem to remember that B1 Prides weren´t sold in germany, although 121DA B1 were available)

1991 Festiva manual solely refers to the 3,777 ratio as well

@F3BZ
Correct, from 1997, the Pride was available as a 72hp variant. It is still an 8V, although even Kia refers to it as 16V here and there ^^.
Emission system is compliant with Euro 2 spec (a "clean car" even for today´s standards). Unfortunately I can´t give you the details for the 72hp transmission (if there is a difference) for lack the Literature right now. Will dig into this, good hint since I have that transmission installed as well!

@timderonne
Not sure if I understand you correctly. You want to use the B1 E5M-R 4th and differential in a 4 Speed housing?

BTW. Got me a B1 transmission from a former 121 B1 donor car a while back.

regards!

[F3BZ]

thanks ChrisDrives! always a plus to hear from overseas members who actually see/drive prides and 121s. the problem with the kia parts books i am using is that no useful numerical information is given. only that there are different part#s for the final drive gear/diff between early and late model pride 5spd transmissions. its taken some research like yours and using shop manuals and web site data bases just to get a clue as to which parts would give up the 4.058 ratio. i'll soon be ordering the gear and then will know for certain when its in hand. also, thanks for clearing up the 16V mystery but how can they claim 16V if there's only 8? all the pics on eBay .de of pride engines for sale clearly show what looks like our Festiva 8V head. so thought maybe it was like the Mazda MX-3 head which crammed 16 valves in an 8 valve dimensioned head. keep visiting

[zoom zoom]

I think it's funny that you want to discuss overseas and expensive to ship options but still haven't taken the time to figure out exactly what it is you have here to work with. I've had a couple transmissions apart and counted teeth to figure stuff out but I haven't done a stock Festiva trans yet. Nobody has verified for sure what the final drive is in a Festiva transmission so how do you even know what gear ratio your trying to run from?


/e I know you said 3.78 but it's also been said that aspire fd is 4.06 and it's not.