88LX - Carb To Fuel-Injected?

[bravekozak]

One word.

NASTY.

[Twistiva]

One word.

NASTY.

I call it "Laztiva".

Can you guess why?

[BigElCat]

The cowl seal is still in place. The rain water most likely did not get into the cylinders. The throttle plates were closed, so no debris. 151K miles means it was just getting broke in, as long as the oil was changed regularly. My recommendation stands. Start with a shop vac. Look for bare wires, and rat holes in the critical hoses.
Try the wrench on the crank bolt before you use PB blaster in the cylinders. Don't turn the motor very much at all. Just enough to see if it's actually stuck.

How much experience do you have working on cars? Have you ever done an engine swap?

[Twistiva]

The cowl seal is still in place. The rain water most likely did not get into the cylinders. The throttle plates were closed, so no debris. 151K miles means it was just getting broke in, as long as the oil was changed regularly. My recommendation stands. Start with a shop vac. Look for bare wires, and rat holes in the critical hoses.
Try the wrench on the crank bolt before you use PB blaster in the cylinders. Don't turn the motor very much at all. Just enough to see if it's actually stuck.

How much experience do you have working on cars? Have you ever done an engine swap?

OK, I'll do as you suggest. Gonna be a while before I can get to it, though. My DD (Twistiva) needs some TLC now. New seats, carpet next. The reason I even asked the question now is I found a carb'd Festiva engine with about 90,000 on it and I wondered if I should maybe just go ahead and buy it now in case I can't resurrect the engine in Laztiva.

Experience: very little....very, very simple stuff....changing oil, spark plugs, wires, etc.

Engine swap: nope. See above.

I do appreciate your help and welcome knowledgeable inputs from anyone else.

[BigElCat]

Just trying to help. I paid $200 for a spare carb motor with 180,000 miles. I'm planning on doing a rings, bearings, gasket rebuild on it. I also bought a rebuilt cylinder head off of eBay. A 90K carb motor would be excellent for you to have as a spare. Changing it out would be much less of a hassle for you, than swapping in a motor that requires splicing in the electrical harness. How much are they asking for that 90K motor?

[nitrofarm]

If the engine ha good compression,I would pull the motor & trans replace the seals . Get a Weber,do the simple adapter and fire it up the next day. Just saw the the Suzuki samurai brand new w/manual choke for $180 on ebay. Scrap that stock carb and get the same mpg with a Weber,without all the hose's.

[Twistiva]

$500 plus shipping, and shipping will probably cost almost as much as the engine.

[tooldude]

That is getting near the price of a complete rebuild isn't it? Just my opinion - there has to be dirt in the manifold and maybe some made it into a cylinder with the intake valve open from 10 years of wind, maybe rust too. The oil has drained off of everything, it needs some pre-lube, that's just for starters. I believe it needs tearing down.

[Twistiva]

That is getting near the price of a complete rebuild isn't it? Just my opinion - there has to be dirt in the manifold and maybe some made it into a cylinder with the intake valve open from 10 years of wind, maybe rust too. The oil has drained off of everything, it needs some pre-lube, that's just for starters. I believe it needs tearing down.

Cost: yes, it probably is. But in the end, won't a complete rebuild of a 151,000 mile engine still give you an engine with 151,000 miles on it? I apologize if that's an idiotic question. Like I said, I'm a novice mechanic right now at best. What all goes into a "complete rebuild"? Do they re-line cylinders with new sleeves? Do you put in brand new pistons, valves, etc? Can you complete a total rebuild with essentially a "0 miles" engine? I know engine rebuild companies like to claim that but how accurate are their claims?

[BigElCat]

$500 plus shipping is not a good deal for a used motor. If they send you a bad one, which is likely, you'd be stuck with at least return shipping.

An old motor that is completely rebuilt correctly is a zero mile motor. The B3 does not have sleeves because it's a cast iron block. They can be bored with new pistons fitted, or a rebuild can done using the original pistons. When old pistons are used, typically new rings are fitted and the cylinders honed out to refresh the surface. It all depends on how much money you spend. A re-manufactured motor would be option. I think they run about $1200.

Can you trust a re-builder? That's an open debate. I generally don't trust anybody when it comes to mechanical work.

[Twistiva]

$500 plus shipping is not a good deal for a used motor. If they send you a bad one, which is likely, you'd be stuck with at least return shipping.

An old motor that is completely rebuilt correctly is a zero mile motor. The B3 does not have sleeves because it's a cast iron block. They can be bored with new pistons fitted, or a rebuild can done using the original pistons. When old pistons are used, typically new rings are fitted and the cylinders honed out to refresh the surface. It all depends on how much money you spend. A re-manufactured motor would be option. I think they run about $1200.

Can you trust a re-builder? That's an open debate. I generally don't trust anybody when it comes to mechanical work.

CORRECTION: The 90,000 mile Festy engine I might buy is FI, NOT carb'd.

How do you rebuild an engine with cylinders that don't use sleeves? I mean, if you rebore the cylinders then you need pistons/piston rings that are slightly bigger than factory/original, right? Guessing we're talking reboring/rehoning a cylinder just a few thousandths larger than from the factory?

I like the idea of have a "zero mile" engine (if it's done right) but the FI motors seem so much more simple in terms of less 'spaghetti' under the hood. Some of the pix I see here of FI engine bays, clean enough to eat off of, and there's waaaaay less connections/hoses than my 88 carb. Plus, like you mentioned, the carb'd motors seem finicky, not just while idling. My daughter's 91L is FI and I'm anxious to have her return from college (out of state) so I can drive hers and see how the FI motors run.

Is there such a thing as a truly "new" wiring harness for Festiva FI engines? I mean, is that a generic part or would I have to find an FI Festy to pull one out of?

[Team Lightning]

The motor we are building for my gas mileage project has 80K miles on it. It also had a busted piston. Thankfully it did not hurt the cylinder walls. (no honing , boring necessary). We are going back with all new bearings, rings, gaskets, and seals (all standard size). My friend has a used piston that will be cleaned up and installed. So far I've spent about $250.00 on parts for the motor at Rockauto.com.

[BigElCat]

CORRECTION: The 90,000 mile Festy engine I might buy is FI, NOT carb'd.

How do you rebuild an engine with cylinders that don't use sleeves? I mean, if you rebore the cylinders then you need pistons/piston rings that are slightly bigger than factory/original, right? Guessing we're talking reboring/rehoning a cylinder just a few thousandths larger than from the factory?

I like the idea of have a "zero mile" engine (if it's done right) but the FI motors seem so much more simple in terms of less 'spaghetti' under the hood. Some of the pix I see here of FI engine bays, clean enough to eat off of, and there's waaaaay less connections/hoses than my 88 carb. Plus, like you mentioned, the carb'd motors seem finicky, not just while idling. My daughter's 91L is FI and I'm anxious to have her return from college (out of state) so I can drive hers and see how the FI motors run.

Is there such a thing as a truly "new" wiring harness for Festiva FI engines? I mean, is that a generic part or would I have to find an FI Festy to pull one out of?

There aren't any new ones. You'd have to pull a complete one from an EFI Festy. It's a fairly big job. You'd want the fuel pump from the tank, and the fuel pick up cover plate, too. And the fuel lines. And the ECM (computer).

Yes, the B3 motors can be re-bored. You buy the pistons in a standard over-size like .030", then the machine shop matches it to the exact pistons.

Most of the hose mess on the carb motors is for emission controls. Mine runs with those hoses disconnected...they're not the source of my idle problems. I think stick with your original carb motor, and doing a carb conversion( to a more simple carb) would be your best bet. That gets rid of the excess lines.

[BigElCat]

The motor we are building for my gas mileage project has 80K miles on it. It also had a busted piston. Thankfully it did not hurt the cylinder walls. (no honing , boring necessary). We are going back with all new bearings, rings, gaskets, and seals (all standard size). My friend has a used piston that will be cleaned up and installed. So far I've spent about $250.00 on parts for the motor at Rockauto.com.

My plan is do the same on my spare B3. I would use one those bottle brush style cylinder hones to break the glaze, and leave a cross hatch pattern on the cylinder walls.

[Twistiva]

My plan is do the same on my spare B3. I would use one those bottle brush style cylinder hones to break the glaze, and leave a cross hatch pattern on the cylinder walls.

Hmmmm....what is the purpose of the "cross hatch pattern" on the cylinder walls? Heat dissipation?

And, thanks for all your input/info. I'm learning. Getting smart on stuff is always cool.