Another Trans swap thread

[red90festyonair]

So my 90atx is not coping well with my driving style or with the B6t that has replaced the stock b3..... Been searching all over this site(including using "the quotes"trick) and have found very little real answers to this question. F series transmission, what years 323/Protege 5speed should I be searching for? Will the trans from a 95 work? I realize that as the cars get newer I will want to avoid the ones without cable drive speedo....when did that start. But if I was OK swapping to hydro clutch, what year car should I be trying to find. http://www.protegefaq.net/transmission.html this leads me to believe that everything 84 up to 94 should be a viable swap..... After that it's all up in the air. The actual purpose of my question is to avoid all the extra work that I would have to do to get the G series fit in my chassis, plus my newly installed ATX axles fit the f trans..... I drive my car every day so the less complicated the swap and fabrication is, the easier life around the house will be...... Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

[TominMO]

You should be fine with 1986-95 Mazda F trannies; 1986-95 323, 90-94 Protege, 91-94 Mercury Capri, and 87-89 Mercury Tracer. The 1995 Protege got a different base motor (1.5L DOHC Z5), but kept the F25M-R tranny. The BP continued after 1994, and came with this same F tranny in manual.

Info from my Haynes manual for 323/Protege 1990-2003, page 7A-1:
Transmission.....Application
F5M-R...............1.6L SOHC & 1.8L SOHC
G5M-R..............1.8L DOHC, 1990-92
F25M-R.............SOHC engines, 93-94; also in 1995+ 1.5L/1.6L/1.8L, with various gear ratios
G25M-R.............DOHC 1.8L, 93-94

[bhazard]

Rio...

[red90festyonair]

So,Tom for the BP after 94.... That would be easiest found in the Protege with a 1.8dohc..... Right?
And Brad for the Rio what years do I want to look for? I thought the Rio used a G trans.... Or is it only certain years,or models that had a G? I have this weekend to get my parts chosen and pulled for this swap so all options available will be a huge help.

[TominMO]

So,Tom for the BP after 94.... That would be easiest found in the Protege with a 1.8dohc..... Right?

Since 1995 was a new generation for Proteges, I don't know if there are any "gotchas" with that tranny. I would feel safe recommending anything up to 1994. Others with more detailed knowledge can speak up for the 1995+ F trannies.

[red90festyonair]

I understand the gotchas, that is the whole reason I started the thread... Lol. I agree that up to 94 is the safest bet but I have run dry locally on the early Proteges lately..... Thanks for the help.

[TominMO]

You probably saw this already, but just in case: Manual transmission swap guide

[red90festyonair]

Yes Sir I did.... The only link that works (on my phone) is the link to Protege-faq link that I posted above... That is actually what got me wondering if there was more information about the swap available.

[Advancedynamix]

Anything with a BP will be a G series tranny and your axles won't fit. Rio tranny will also require different axles. The Z series engines in the Protégé use the same bell housing pattern as the b series with a couple of extra bolts thrown in, but the major bolts all line up. The problem with just about any F series transmission is that the gear ratios are not good for a Festiva. That is because the overall tire diameter on all the cars that came with the f trans is much larger than tires that comfortably fit under a festiva. This means your cruising RPM on the freeway will be near 4k rpm. The B6t gets HORRIBLE gas milage above 4k rpm because the management runs rich above 4k. Your best bet is to bite the bullet and go with a g series and a tall 5th gear conversion.

[red90festyonair]

So..... from the above info it looks like the F trans would basically act just like the ATX that is already in my car... Correct? That is the battle I am fighting now, at highway speeds ~70Mph I am turning ~4kRpm........ I have 185/60/14s on Miata wheels, and the Gauge set from an Xr2 Capri so I am pretty sure that my speed is as close to correct as I could expect. Right now I have been babying the car because of the slushy shifting ATX and I still am barely seeing 20MPG which is truly disappointing so I can attest to the HORRIBLE gas mileage.

Does the 97-03 Sephia with the 1.8 have a G series also or only the 00-05 Rio ? When did they stop having cable drive speedometers ?

Is it Azgtx that sells the 5th gear conversion? Does he make the parts or is it a gear set from a different trans that works in the G series?

Thank you guys for the advice I would have been really upset to go through the whole swap only to find what bugs me most about the ATX, cruising Rpm on the highway, was the same as the old trans........

[TominMO]

Any manual 5-speed will be better than a Festy 3-speed auto. At 60 MPH my Aspire, with lower final-drive gearing than the Festy, would get 52 MPG. With an F tranny in the Aspire, I would expect roughly the same. F final drive is similar to the Aspire's E.

Best tip: slow down. Both RPMs and wind resistance go up with speed, a double penalty. My best mileage in a 5-speed Festy was 62.5 MPG, at a steady 45 MPH. Next best was 58.0 MPG at 55 MPH. 60 MPH brought it down to 52.5 MPG. You won't get this kind of mileage with an auto, but the same principal applies. So it takes you an extra few minutes to get to work--first-world problem. Leave home a few minutes earlier, drive at 60 or so.

[red90festyonair]

Yes, first world problem I understand.... Driving at 65-70 is just to be in the flow of traffic...in the slow lane...and in no real rush to get to work. My best with the 1.3 was just under 40 with the ATX.... So getting barely half that is really troubling to me. I do make it a point to drive more reasonable than not.... Again I am still torn as to which trans from which car I should be trying to get.....

[TominMO]

My EFI 1.3 with the Matt Dickmeyer-prepped head got 48 MPG on a long trip with the Festy 5-speed, cruising at 60 MPH. Less torque than a Weber-carby B6, but it pulled the B6 at higher RPMs. So I lost 4 MPG compared to a stock Festy motor, but gained ~32 WHP (it dynoed @ 85 WHP).

[Advancedynamix]

The stock Festiva 5 speed is a blessing for MPG, but could be troublesome with the b6t bolted to it. It has held for some and exploded for others. Luckily, the tall 5th swap on a g series will come fairly close to giving you a correct 5th gear ratio, and a clutch that will hold without spending an arm and a leg and having to deal with the spec clutch chatter and break in period.