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**Safety Guy** · 09-20-2005, 07:26 AM

I was meaning to email you to see how they worked out. You probably remember I have the same size VW alloys (different style though) on my Mutt, and I got the same "bad vibes" at higher speeds.

I spent over $100 on custom steel hub rings, but you should search the internet and local shops to see if you can get already made ones.

Measure your wheel bores and look up the Aspire hub diameter (I can't recall it offhand) and get that sized ring. I think some are made of plastic.

It may be possible to very carefully install your wheels "lugcentrically" but I can't say how to best do it besides experimentation. Maybe take it to a shop that does on car wheel balancing? But then if you got a flat and changed them yourself, you're back to shake city.

Those wheels were really nice looking too!

Karl

**Safety Guy** · 09-20-2005, 07:35 AM

I was just thinking there is the process of properly tightening the bolts on your car:

Hand tighten the bolts, then use the wrench to tighten the bolt at the top of the circle. Each time you tighten a bolt, spin the wheel so that bolt is at the TOP of the pattern circle.

Remember to tighten #1 and #3 (ie. opposites), then #2 and #4.

See if that works with your "ball seat" wheel and bolts.

Your bolts are "ball seat" too, right?

FYI, Kia Rio lug bolts are longer (I'm still at work so I'm guessing about 1/4" at least) than your Aspire bolts and are "ball seat" pattern, I think. I just picked up 8 of them at the 'yard yesterday. They have some kind of washers on them as well. I'll now go do a post on my little trip on some intriguing Rio parts...

Karl

**97 Aspire 5 Speed** · 09-20-2005, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by Safety Guy

I was just thinking there is the process of properly tightening the bolts on your car:

Hand tighten the bolts, then use the wrench to tighten the bolt at the top of the circle. Each time you tighten a bolt, spin the wheel so that bolt is at the TOP of the pattern circle.

Remember to tighten #1 and #3 (ie. opposites), then #2 and #4.

See if that works with your "ball seat" wheel and bolts.

Your bolts are "ball seat" too, right?

FYI, Kia Rio lug bolts are longer (I'm still at work so I'm guessing about 1/4" at least) than your Aspire bolts and are "ball seat" pattern, I think. I just picked up 8 of them at the 'yard yesterday. They have some kind of washers on them as well. I'll now go do a post on my little trip on some intriguing Rio parts...

Karl

That is what I'm going to try and yep, the bolts are ball seat. I got a nice set of 20 for a good price on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=7997029105

But I've been doing some research and here is what I found:

Aspire hub = 54.1 mm (2.1299")
VW Wheel bore = 57.1 mm (2.2480")

2 1/4" Exhaust Tubing OD = 2.25" (57.15 mm)
2 1/4" Exhaust Tubing Wall Thickness: = 0.063" (1.600 mm)
2 1/4" Exhaust Tubing ID (OD - 2x(wall thickness)) = 2.124" (53.9496 mm)

It looks like I may end up with some VERY cheap rings. Just cut some tubing, chuck it up in a lathe, turn it true and vala... hub centric rings.

I'll let everyone know how it works out. First I'll thy the remount and if that doesn't work, I'll get a long piece of tubing to center the wheel but pull out the tubing once the bolts are tightened. Then if all else fails, I'll make rings.

And yeah, I wasn't expecting this to work like Cryptokid said... :evil:

**Safety Guy** · 09-20-2005, 06:39 PM

Just FYI, when I installed my rings I put them in from the backside by putting a plastic weight plate on the ring and pounding it into the hole with a mallet.

And BTW, I just went out and checked the Mutt's VW wheel bores.

The critical diameter is in the back of the hole where it meets the hub. It stays that diameter until about one inch from the outside of the bore hole, where it has a sharp lip that narrows about a mm or so. That's what my rings have abutted against. Then there is a final "less than bore diameter" lip about a mm or two at the outer end of the hole.

I don't think that "pipe idea" will work. Any ring will have to be short and fit into the hole from the back.

I'm guessing that your wheel is designed the same as mine borewise. If it takes one of those black VW plastic snap in centercaps I bet it's the same.

I could be wrong and you might have the same bore diameter through the wheel center, in which case you could use a "removable" pipe length.

Anyhow, good luck! I repeat... them's NICE looking wheels!

Karl

**97 Aspire 5 Speed** · 09-21-2005, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by Safety Guy

The critical diameter is in the back of the hole where it meets the hub. It stays that diameter until about one inch from the outside of the bore hole, where it has a sharp lip that narrows about a mm or so. That's what my rings have abutted against. Then there is a final "less than bore diameter" lip about a mm or two at the outer end of the hole.

That is what gets me. These wheels have a 1/4" taper on them. From where the wheel touches the brake the bore is about 2 1/2", then it tapers in to about 2 1/4" about a 1/4 of the way toward the outside of the wheel. It looks like the taper is on a 45 degree angle!! Instead of a square bore it is tapered. So the "normal" ring wouldn't work. I'm guessing that it is definitely designed as lug centric since it uses the ball seat bolts.

Hopefully I'll get to work on it this evening! I'll post my success/failure tomorrow!

**Safety Guy** · 09-21-2005, 05:12 PM

Ah yes, I remember now a sizeable bevel on the back face of the bore. My rings are seated just inside that in the next "diameter."

In fact I just took off two of them today and put on the Aspire alloys in front. My LF wheel has had a worsening leak from the rim.

Since I didn't want a 155/80 with a 165/70 on the front, I changed both sides.

Karl

**97 Aspire 5 Speed** · 09-22-2005, 07:03 AM

Well as feared.... two hours of bolting/unbolting/rotating/rebolting/unbolitng/slowly tightening/etc. and still the exact same vibration. :cry:

With the ball seat, there just seems no way to get them centered. I think if it was a tapered seat it would be fine. I even put some grease on the back of the ball area to make them "slide" better and hopefully center them up. But nope, no luck!!

So the spare wheel and a piece of exhaust tubing is at the fabricator's shop as I type!

I did find out that all my bearings are in great shape! No noise or loseness at all. (I couldn't believe how long the rear tire would spin after I stopped spinning it.... it was like the Engergizer Bunny... it just kept going!!)

**97 Aspire 5 Speed** · 09-26-2005, 08:12 AM

WooHoo!!! I win!!

My 2 1/4" exhaust tubing worked like a champ!!! I "trued" the OD, removed the weld seam from the ID, pressed them into the wheels and no vibrations! Everything fit like a glove!

The overall cost was $100 due to the labor in trueing/turning the OD down some, but in reality it wasn't needed.

I still have to get the center caps installed, but when I do, I'll post some photos!

**Safety Guy** · 09-26-2005, 12:44 PM

Sounds great!

You wrote:

"The overall cost was $100 due to the labor in trueing/turning the OD down some, but in reality it wasn't needed."

The turning down wasn't needed? How do you know? Could standard 2.25" pipe be "cleaned up" with a file, cut to length, and simply be pounded into the wheel bore backside? If so, that would be cheap and easy indeed!

There are quite a few VW alloys that would look nice on Aspires & converted Festivas. Mine look really nice, IMO, but are a bit heavy at 15 pounds each without tires. (That's heavy when you consider that the 14 X 5.5" Miata alloys only weigh about 12 pounds each.)

Karl

**97 Aspire 5 Speed** · 09-26-2005, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Safety Guy

"The overall cost was $100 due to the labor in trueing/turning the OD down some, but in reality it wasn't needed."

The turning down wasn't needed? How do you know? Could standard 2.25" pipe be "cleaned up" with a file, cut to length, and simply be pounded into the wheel bore backside? If so, that would be cheap and easy indeed!

I "think" they would be ok, just cleaned up to remove any rust/corrosion. There is only .05 mm (.002") difference between the ID (57.1 mm/2.24803149") of the VW wheel, and the OD (57.15 mm/2.25"). But that is assuming a true 2.25" OD of the exhaust tubing. Obviously that needs to be checked. The only reason we turned it was to make sure it was actually round. I used a bearing/ball joint installer setup to install it and it pressed in nice and true.

"Your results may vary..."

**Safety Guy** · 09-26-2005, 03:29 PM

Gotcha!

Enjoy your new wheels.

Karl

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Hub Centric vs. Lug Centric

Hub Centric vs. Lug Centric

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