upper strut mount position, camber + or -?

[ejp2fast]

ok, I am looking at my haynes manual now in the suspension part and the front strut and the orientation of the upper strut mount in relation to the body. It says to "mark the relationship of one of the upper mounting studs to the body. This will ensure that the strut mount is reinstalled in the same position, preserving the CAMBER adjustment"

In other words, when you turn the upper strut mount 180 degrees, you change camber...

now here's my question, when 180 degrees out from stock position, will this make it go NEGATIVE or POSITIVE camber from stock?

I just lowered my festy and have negative camber now....(tops of wheels closer than bottoms of wheels) and i have camber bolt to go in to compensate. but i want to know if i can turn the upper strut mounts to help.

[FestYboy]

i lowered mine and never touched the camber because it was so close to even left to right. right now i believe i'm at 1.7-1.9* negative camber with no effects on tire wear.

[JPT]

From what I've read on here, turning your strut mounts 180 degrees will erase some of your negative camber. How much? I don't know.

[festivaWES]

I don't see how that would improve anything. Negative camber is not issue to worry abouton these cars anyways.

[FestYboy]

that's what i'm saying...

[floydiancomplex]

The mounts have a built in offset for some degree of camber adjustment.
Take one out and turn it around, there is a gap between the rubber tower
and the steel lip that changes. Pay no attention to the little rubber nipple
it will not help you.

Here are a couple pics to help visualize:

Drivers side mount:


My gap is on the fender side with the tower against the inner lip.
This is set to the NEGATIVE position. What is the change, I have
no idea but more Neg. camber is better. Screw tire wear.

Passenger side mount:


Same as other with the gap on the fender side.

So if you want to regain some positive camber put your mounts the
opposite of mine.

But why would you want that. You lowered your car to handle better right?
A lowered macpherson strut suspension needs extra neg. camber to compensate
for reduced roll over threshold. The stock suspension geometry places the Lower
Control Arm at a downward angle from the frame. This means as the suspension
is compressed the bottom of the strut moves away from the LCA mount relative
to the upper mount. Thus gaining neg. camber for the first inch or so of compression.

Once the LCA is parallel to the ground the maximum neg camber gain has been
achieved. From that point upward the strut bottom moves toward the inner mount
and the wheel begins to rollover. Look at the outside front wheel of a FWD car in a
hard corner for a visual.

The point is when you lower the car the control arm moves closer to the point
of rollover for all conditions so when you go to corner you end up with positive
camber under hard driving and therefore even worse handling at the limit.

If you insist upon lowering you need to use a coilover and throw enough
spring at it to keep the front end as flat as possible during cornering. That way
you don't have to worry about pos. camber gain from roll. I use a 250 LB spring
in front, Quadawg uses 300.

[Jimmy812]

The mounts have a built in offset for some degree of camber adjustment.
Take one out and turn it around, there is a gap between the rubber tower
and the steel lip that changes. Pay no attention to the little rubber nipple
it will not help you.

Here are a couple pics to help visualize:

Drivers side mount:


My gap is on the fender side with the tower against the inner lip.
This is set to the NEGATIVE position. What is the change, I have
no idea but more Neg. camber is better. Screw tire wear.

Passenger side mount:


Same as other with the gap on the fender side.

So if you want to regain some positive camber put your mounts the
opposite of mine.

But why would you want that. You lowered your car to handle better right?
A lowered macpherson strut suspension needs extra neg. camber to compensate
for reduced roll over threshold. The stock suspension geometry places the Lower
Control Arm at a downward angle from the frame. This means as the suspension
is compressed the bottom of the strut moves away from the LCA mount relative
to the upper mount. Thus gaining neg. camber for the first inch or so of compression.

Once the LCA is parallel to the ground the maximum neg camber gain has been
achieved. From that point upward the strut bottom moves toward the inner mount
and the wheel begins to rollover. Look at the outside front wheel of a FWD car in a
hard corner for a visual.

The point is when you lower the car the control arm moves closer to the point
of rollover for all conditions so when you go to corner you end up with positive
camber under hard driving and therefore even worse handling at the limit.

If you insist upon lowering you need to use a coilover and throw enough
spring at it to keep the front end as flat as possible during cornering. That way
you don't have to worry about pos. camber gain from roll. I use a 250 LB spring
in front, Quadawg uses 300.

Well stated.

Lowering beyond the point where the control arms are parallel with the pavement also starts going really ugly things with your roll center actually increasing body roll the lower you go with a given spring rate.

Anybody ever tried making ball joint spacers for the Festiva to restore what geometry there is on a stock Festiva to a lowered one?

Since there isn't much in the way of upgraded sway bars for a Festiva, it would seem that retaining the stock roll center would be priority over the small improvements in handling that lowering in and of itself provides.

[ejp2fast]

thanks guys, that helped... i won't worry about my camber...