FMS springs installed

[blkfordsedan]

Finally got it back together and have an appointment to get re-aligned tomorrow afternoon. I rebuilt both front hubs (brgs & seals), turned the rotors, new calipers & pads, new MOOG sway bar bushings, new CV axles, new steering rack boots, rebuilt rear hubs (brgs & seals), new shoes, hardware and wheel cylinders. I re-used my Monroe Sens-a-trac struts since they were almost new and I installed the new FMS springs that have been in my garage for 2 years. I also put on all 4 new strut boots from KYB.
My first thought was "WOW, that thing is low". I didn't realize how much the springs would lower it. Initial test drive revealed an improvement in handling with an acceptable ride quality. But MAN, is it LOWER! The top edge of the front tires are just barely above the wheel well lip and I scraped the trans mount on the ground pulling out of the driveway. My Mustang doesn't even do that. The springs don't feel that much firmer than the factory, especially in the front, and I'm worried about hitting the bump stops on the strut boots.

I also have a 47" piece of 9/16" 4140 hardened solid steel rod that I plan on welding in the rear Festiva axle, but I think I better wait until I get an Aspire front sway bar. I'm afraid the added weight transfer will be too much for the springs without it.

[blkfordsedan]

Got it back from alignment this afternoon and drove it around a little. Over-all, it was a nice improvement and I can live with the firmer ride. Now that it's aligned, I can say it does indeed handle and corner a lot better than stock. However, I do have a problem:

My car was originally wrecked in the left front corner and the inner fender has been spliced in from another car. They did a good job, but the caster has always been out of spec on the drivers side. Evidently the control arm pivot point on the driver's side has been tweaked back slightly. The caster on the driver's side is actually slightly negative. The passenger's side is normal (slightly positive), but that creates a difference of almost 2 degrees between the two sides. They said about .5 degrees difference is the max allowable. This causes the car to pull to the left slightly. It has always been this way, but the lowering springs seem to have accentuated the problem. I also am wondering if the new MOOG sway bar/control arm bushings I installed are the culprit (thicker & harder than the factory rubber so they pushed the control arm farther back)? I remember that reinstalling the sway bar and getting the front brackets to line back up on the studs was harder with the new bushings.

I know the best way is to have a shop pull it back in spec, but does anyone have any suggestions on what I may be able to do to "fudge" a little adjustment and reduce the difference without spending much money? Any change (even .5 degrees) would be an improvement and the tire shop said they would re-align it for free within 30 days if I can make some changes. I have several ideas in mind, but I want someone else's thoughts first.

[JPT]

Is it just the pivot point or did the whole sub frame get pushed back? If it's just the pivot point, you could try tweaking it back to spec. If it's the sub frame, I'd take it to a frame shop.

It's probably just the pivot point. If the sub frame moved, I would think you'd see other problems.

If you do try tweaking it, watch for cracks. You don't need the pivot point failing while you're on the road.

[skimsucka]

you could order camber bolts like i just did my coil overs and kybs dropped the car so low my cambers off quite a bit the camber bolts give 1.75 deg adjustment either way pos or neg and how did the shop adjust you camber theres no adjustment on our cars ? im going to install my camber bolts then bring to the shop and have them align it and guide the monkeys i don't wanna have a horror experience like so many have

[Flyin4stroke]

tell them up front you aren't paying for it unless it is right no matter how many hours it is on the machine....

[eurotiva]

I lowered mine and it's just fine hahahahahahahahahahaha

[Flyin4stroke]

you are sooo bad A**

[blkfordsedan]

you could order camber bolts like i just did my coil overs and kybs dropped the car so low my cambers off quite a bit the camber bolts give 1.75 deg adjustment either way pos or neg and how did the shop adjust you camber theres no adjustment on our cars ? im going to install my camber bolts then bring to the shop and have them align it and guide the monkeys i don't wanna have a horror experience like so many have

The camber is perfect. I installed camber bolts in the struts when i assembled it. The problem is the caster. (stand with your feet side by side, flat on the floor. Now take a small step forward with your Right foot, leaving you Left in place. Your legs now represent my struts) My Right strut is angled forward 1.3 Degrees and my Left strut is angled backwards about .5 Degrees. They should both angle forward (spec is .3 to 1.8 degrees).

[blkfordsedan]

Is it just the pivot point or did the whole sub frame get pushed back? If it's just the pivot point, you could try tweaking it back to spec. If it's the sub frame, I'd take it to a frame shop.

It's probably just the pivot point. If the sub frame moved, I would think you'd see other problems.

If you do try tweaking it, watch for cracks. You don't need the pivot point failing while you're on the road.

I think the subframe is buckled ever-so-slightly, just ahead of the pivot point. It must have caused the angle of the pivot bolt to be tweaked. It doesn't take much angular change at the pivot bolt to create a big change at the ball joint end of the control arm.
I don't think it's a good idea to try and mess with the sub frame, for the reason you stated. I think I can force some adjustment out of the upper strut mount and also the sway bar brackets. I can slightly elongate some holes if needed. If I can get the top of the strut to move back toward the driver a little and pull the driver's side sway bar mount forward a little, I think I can get from -.5 to "0.00". Then, if I can pull the top of the passenger's strut forward and push the sway bar bracket back on that side, I should be able to reduce the caster on that side from +1.3 degrees to maybe +1.00.
That should difference from 1.8 degrees to 1.00. Far from perfect, but it should make a difference in how it drives.

Honestly, since the caster is technically "non-adjustable" I don't think they did anything except adjust the Camber and Toe and charge me $60. I'm sure if they would have loosened some bolts and tried, they could have got it closer. Even factory bolts have some movement to them. I remember back in the '80's when the technicians took pride in their work. They used to push and pull and tweak until everything was dead in the middle of the spec range and even from side to side. Now, if it's even barely within the spec range they don't touch it and if its out of range but doesn't have a bolt you can turn or threads it's "non adjustable" and they they just say "sorry, take to a body shop". What I wouldn't give for an old man that's been doing it for 40 years!

[LightWeight]

yea it is sad but people are scared to touch stuff like that if they don't have the "proper" tools because lawsuits and crap like that is a huge pain. Whereas if you have the proper tools your covered by insurance. You also have the boss man bearing down your back to keep stuff moving through the shop and there is the sad fact that allot of techs in my generation are not as motivated for quality as they are for speed (see above comment about the boss man). And then you have the fact that most people that drive cars for transportation are not willing to pay for perfection they only want what is just good enough to get them by and that is all they will pay for.
PS. on a side note I am picky about the work I personally do and Ive known several 40+ yr old techs that dont care very much and are a bit shady as well.

[Burnrate]

I would do some measuring to see whats moved. Does the service manual have a frame measurements diagram?
Could the drivers side mounting point for the sway bar be pushed back from the accident?
The sway bar seem to be what affects caster the most(other than the top of the strut). It does slope down a little on a normal suspension correct? When we lower our cars it pushes the caster more negative because the arc of the sway bar is more flattened out.

What about having a quarter of an inch machined off the shoulder on the ends (more or less depending upon your needs). You could then add washers shim the caster to the correct location. You would have to add an equal number behind the nut to keep the bushings compressed correctly. Could all lowered Festivas benefit from this?