Rear seat lower strut bar

[71Montego]

I added this in a short time. Not sure if its been done already. It is noticeable.
I removed the seat bolts and cut the bar and bent in a bit for the contour. I smashed the ends flat. Then used 10-1.25 X 40 MM bolts from Depot. I added some washers in front and back. I had the bar. I think its 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inches in dia.

[jemartin144]

What thickness is the bar you used?

[71Montego]

As stated, 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inches in dia.

[FestYboy]

^ no, what wall thickness is the tube? is what he's asking

[71Montego]

1/16-1/32 ? I had it laying around. Electric conduit at Home depot in 1 1/2 should be sufficient and readily available.

[Bert]

I realize these cars flex (sure notice it when you jack them up from the front and then lower them on to stands at the sides) but just how useful are all these ideas of pipe struts and mini torsion bars? I went from a Festy front sway bar (about 7/8 inch diameter) to an Aspire job (about 1 1/16 thick) (along with the somewhat more torsion-resistant Aspire rear frame) and that renovation did make a whale of a difference. But it is easy to appreciate the form and function of a sway bar. But the rest of this stuff doesn't seem likely to make an appreciable difference unless you're buying into every last fraction of an inch less movement on a racetrack or offroad setting.
Of course I'm happy to hear people are experimenting with all manner of stiffening and am starting to wonder when some creative folks are going to start beefing up pillars and a roof since that in effect is what creates much of the rigidity in a unibody car.

[skimsucka]

I realize these cars flex (sure notice it when you jack them up from the front and then lower them on to stands at the sides) but just how useful are all these ideas of pipe struts and mini torsion bars? I went from a Festy front sway bar (about 7/8 inch diameter) to an Aspire job (about 1 1/16 thick) (along with the somewhat more torsion-resistant Aspire rear frame) and that renovation did make a whale of a difference. But it is easy to appreciate the form and function of a sway bar. But the rest of this stuff doesn't seem likely to make an appreciable difference unless you're buying into every last fraction of an inch less movement on a racetrack or offroad setting.
Of course I'm happy to hear people are experimenting with all manner of stiffening and am starting to wonder when some creative folks are going to start beefing up pillars and a roof since that in effect is what creates much of the rigidity in a unibody car.

+1 !

I bet an X brace from c pillar to c pillar behind the front seats would equate to a solid festiva

[blitzbuggy]

cool ! cheap and easy! on my to do list for sure!

[crazyrog17]

+1 !

I bet an X brace from c pillar to c pillar behind the front seats would equate to a solid festiva

That would be the B pillar, but I agree. There's a lot of torsion there that could be remedied with an x brace. Another from the corners of the windshield to the tops of the B pillars would improve that even more!

[skimsucka]

That would be the B pillar, but I agree. There's a lot of torsion there that could be remedied with an x brace. Another from the corners of the windshield to the tops of the B pillars would improve that even more!

but all this nonsense gets in the way

[crazyrog17]

Yep, and adds weight.

[M3NTAL]

Through the floor subframe connectors FTW!!

(x brace with subframes for the frickin win lol)

[Advancedynamix]

I realize these cars flex (sure notice it when you jack them up from the front and then lower them on to stands at the sides) but just how useful are all these ideas of pipe struts and mini torsion bars? I went from a Festy front sway bar (about 7/8 inch diameter) to an Aspire job (about 1 1/16 thick) (along with the somewhat more torsion-resistant Aspire rear frame) and that renovation did make a whale of a difference. But it is easy to appreciate the form and function of a sway bar. But the rest of this stuff doesn't seem likely to make an appreciable difference unless you're buying into every last fraction of an inch less movement on a racetrack or offroad setting.
Of course I'm happy to hear people are experimenting with all manner of stiffening and am starting to wonder when some creative folks are going to start beefing up pillars and a roof since that in effect is what creates much of the rigidity in a unibody car.

I haven't had the chance to get Festiva out on the track yet, but with other unibody cars, that I have set up in the past, chassis flex plays an important part in a cars ability to soak up track irregularities. This has been verified with lap time, corner g-forces, shock load data and tire temps. The results are very consistent over a broad range of cars. Flex is not always a bad thing.
Places you don't want flex in a chassis are mainly related to power distribution (i.e. components that flex and distort under engine load) and any flexing that causes undesirable changes directly to suspension geometry (i.e. strut tower flex, excessive bushing deflection, steering rack flex).
A good example of flex being a good thing is the torsioning rear beam found on our little Festivas. When the torsioning beam flexes it actually acts like 4 wheel steering (or 3 wheel steering when your turning really hard, Lol!). This is a secret I learned while tuning Mk1 and Mk2 VW's for roadracing and rally. These cars turn their best when that rear beam is twisting and doing it's thing. The engineers who designed it were very bright and their work has been misunderstood by many. Just think of what direction your tire is pointing when that thing is tweaking under load and it all becomes clear. Flex is changing suspension geometry for the better.
The engineering involved in designing and producing a unibody is very extensive and they are designed to flex. In theory (not saying this will happen to you) stiffening one place on the chassis, without considering where that stress load is being transferred, could cause the unibody to fatigue somewhere else. I doubt this conduit brace is going to cause any problems, just giving a little theory.
It is good to see people getting creative with their cars, hope this info helps.

[EVOGUN]

I haven't had the chance to get Festiva out on the track yet, but with other unibody cars, that I have set up in the past, chassis flex plays an important part in a cars ability to soak up track irregularities. This has been verified with lap time, corner g-forces, shock load data and tire temps. The results are very consistent over a broad range of cars. Flex is not always a bad thing.
Places you don't want flex in a chassis are mainly related to power distribution (i.e. components that flex and distort under engine load) and any flexing that causes undesirable changes directly to suspension geometry (i.e. strut tower flex, excessive bushing deflection, steering rack flex).
A good example of flex being a good thing is the torsioning rear beam found on our little Festivas. When the torsioning beam flexes it actually acts like 4 wheel steering (or 3 wheel steering when your turning really hard, Lol!). This is a secret I learned while tuning Mk1 and Mk2 VW's for roadracing and rally. These cars turn their best when that rear beam is twisting and doing it's thing. The engineers who designed it were very bright and their work has been misunderstood by many. Just think of what direction your tire is pointing when that thing is tweaking under load and it all becomes clear. Flex is changing suspension geometry for the better.
The engineering involved in designing and producing a unibody is very extensive and they are designed to flex. In theory (not saying this will happen to you) stiffening one place on the chassis, without considering where that stress load is being transferred, could cause the unibody to fatigue somewhere else. I doubt this conduit brace is going to cause any problems, just giving a little theory.
It is good to see people getting creative with their cars, hope this info helps.

One note, the engineers did all this on a stock car. When you modify the wheels, shocks springs etc. Big changes happen and can over stress the factory requirements. So some stiffening can help, to curve these forces back to a factory engineering stand point!

Thanks

[Advancedynamix]

One note, the engineers did all this on a stock car. When you modify the wheels, shocks springs etc. Big changes happen and can over stress the factory requirements. So some stiffening can help, to curve these forces back to a factory engineering stand point!

Thanks

Very true.
On my car I re-engineered the lower rad support to withstand the tremendous abuse that I bestow upon my chassis. I stock form, this particular part of the festiva is a weak link. Notice the removable rad support. The frame is also gusseted and plated in the front. This car has zero torque steer and doesn't really spin the tires, even with an open diff.