manual brakes

[getnpsi]

Is there a 121 or other mazda car that did not have power assist brakes and its master cylinder is a direct bolt on?

[getnpsi]

Does the diesel mazda 323 have an air compressor?

[71Montego]

I would think a diesel would have the hydoboost. Off the PS pump. I took one off the Lincon mark 7 and put it on a mustang. Awesome braking.

[Hot_Wheels]

you can probably use a mustang manual brake set up, there was a wilwood master on the festicle (which i believe was from a mustang) so if that fit im sure you could use the fox body manual brake stuff.

[Christ]

If you want manual brakes, just delete the booster and get a slightly smaller master cylinder. It's really that easy. I did it on my Golf (Diesel) and used a new OEM M/C with absolutely no problem. I cut up the booster and used the faces of it without the diaphragm to make an adapter plate for the M/C to mount to the firewall.

When you're working on really light cars like this, there's really no need for power brakes, especially since you (IIRC) drive with an Eco-minded approach, so you probably aren't using them frequently anyway.

An actual adapter plate would be fairly simple to make from a chunk of aluminum, if you were interested in making it look decent.

[Christ]

Also, if you don't want manual brakes, but don't want the engine assisting your vacuum booster, vacuum pumps are cheap and accumulators are easily made. The pressure switch can be sourced easily enough, too.

[getnpsi]

Yes, I was looking for an oem piece that goes right thru the firewall and attaches to the pedal assembly with no hassle. NOW...if i have to get a piece of billet or other scrap and drill some holes that isnt out of my league if need be. Making it look simple is about the same importance. Yes from an ECO standpoint especially with a carb you can gain mileage/lower emissions in theory by not having a hunting idle by elimating a potential vac leak from the brakes. Even in perfect shape the one way valves are supposed to bleed off some anyway.

Christ...ive never had the MC off these cars, just once to sell one off ...can the pushrods be removed and changed into another MC or is that something that if you can take it out, its trashed like a hyd clutch?

Let's see if some of the eco dudes like safety guy see this thread, they might want to go manual brakes too, and members with cars apart already for painting are welcome to take measurements!

[Christ]

I'll take my booster/mc apart tomorrow and break the booster up to show you. On the Golf, I had to break a plastic clip off and ended up using the booster rod to actuate the MC. I'd presume it'll be the same way on most cars, really. You'll have to trim the booster rod to get the pedal height correct, and a chunk of aluminum plate is literally the easiest thing to do, short of a bolt on.

Most non-manual MC's have a "socket" in the back where a pushrod from the booster fits into, to push the piston in the MC against the fluid (and a light spring). Generally, it's molded/screwed into the booster diaphragm, as many as I've seen. You can usually take the booster apart cleanly by opening the edge crimps up and prying the two halves apart, then figure from there what parts you'll need to salvage from it.

Like I said, I'll take one apart and take some pics tomorrow, or at least before the weekend. I plan on doing this with my Festiva anyway, so I'll get something set up that I can just "swap in" without having to take my runner off the road for any length of time.

[getnpsi]

Wow sounds great. I have a non running carby in hibernation but haven't even had time to air up tires and move her into surgery

[Christ]

I didn't get to take the brakes apart today, spent too much time doing other things and swapping back seats in Steve to a split folding rear.

I will get to it, though, and then I'll give you a quick walk through of exactly what parts to use/modify, since like I said I'm gonna need to do it myself as well.

[Christ]

I... uh... completely forgot about doing this with everything else I've been doing.

However, I remembered it today while I was working on the Festiva in the yard, so I will get back to it and get that booster apart with pics. The rest of the car is just about gutted, so the only stuff I need to pull now requires working under the dash. While I'm under there, I'll pop the pedal assembly out and pull the m/c booster so I can bring it home and break it apart on the kitchen table.

Weather permitting, before the end of this weekend. (I know, I said that last time.)

[getnpsi]

Heh kitchen table. You ever put your hand tools in the dishwasher too? Works like a charm btw

[Bert]

I have to admit not being a fan of power steering (too slow to respond when you really reef on the wheel) but I'm curious why you'd want to delete vacuum-assist brakes. It doesn't rob engine power by any significant amount.
Way back I borrowed a buddy's 69 F350 camper special with big block engine, 4-speed, 'Armstrong' steering and manual brakes. That brute required 3 men and a boy to turn the wheel when it was stationary, and to push or hold down any of the pedals, and my otherwise-athletic wife wanted nothing to do with that thing within 2 minutes of getting behind the wheel.

[Christ]

I have to admit not being a fan of power steering (too slow to respond when you really reef on the wheel) but I'm curious why you'd want to delete vacuum-assist brakes. It doesn't rob engine power by any significant amount.
Way back I borrowed a buddy's 69 F350 camper special with big block engine, 4-speed, 'Armstrong' steering and manual brakes. That brute required 3 men and a boy to turn the wheel when it was stationary, and to push or hold down any of the pedals, and my otherwise-athletic wife wanted nothing to do with that thing within 2 minutes of getting behind the wheel.

1. The carb can start "hunting" for a proper mixture during idle if there's a vacuum leak, or with anything other than steady pressure. This reduces Fuel economy.
2. Weight. Not much, but weight.
3. The Festiva weighs next to nothing compared to that truck (literally, less than 1/3 the weight), and the stock pedal is like dough compared to most vehicles. Making it manual instead of assisted won't really make it hard to stop.
4. Manual brakes tend to have more "feel" for the driver. It allows you to bring yourself much closer to the application "edge" without locking them up.
5. Old M/C's tend to be "sloppy", and the pressure applied by the vacuum on the booster diaphragm under high load (high vacuum) situations is sometimes enough to cause the brakes to drag slightly, reducing the amount of HP actually making it to the road.
6. The list feature is fun to play with.

[getnpsi]

Hypermiling with zero power anything means no sensation changes to mess with your head when illegally coasting with engine off. By law power brakes are supposed to keep enough vacuum to get to the side the road in case of engine failure. with no power assist you have all the drinks you want...brakes darn autocompletes