Sway Bar

[zoom zoom]

I've got the front bars from an 02 Rio, I haven't actually held them up, but they look a bit long to work in any stock location..to the rad support anyway..that's where they were on the KIA. Actually I've got the whole KIA front end I think, I may have left the sway bar?

[Advancedynamix]

The longer the better (well until you run out of car that is, lol) they could possibly be modified to work and would require a custom subframe or core support (or else the festiva chassis will flex badly as the swaybar is a stressed member.) Zoom, can you get a rough tape measurement of them with possibly a picture? I've just looked under Rios long enough to say, "huh, that's better" lol.

[zoom zoom]

Yea ill see what I can do. It won't be till tomorrow at best though, there was some confusion with the location of my camera(s) chargers, and memory cards..if I can I will.

[Christ]

The pictured stabilizer setup replaces the front torsion arms on a 4th gen Honda Civic and 2g Honda CRX. IT WORKS AMAZINGLY WELL, even compared to the stock setup which is certainly no dog for that application.

[Christ]

The idea on a Festiva would be to use that while assembly. On the civic, it bolts in place of the front your hooks and replaces the front lower cross member that also serves as a transmission mount location. You'd hook it to the Festiva tow hooks and use the thee existing bosses to brace out to the radiator lower support with with a plate through the channel or heavy washers to distribute twist loads.

It is also used with adjustable rods to make caster changes quick, but camber and type need to be adjusted with each change because all three change dynamically in McPherson setups.

[blkfordsedan]

I have to agree with Advanced and Christ on the stock sway bar. All the Tech books on FWD suspension I've read say to run a stiff bar on the rear axle and a weak bar on the front axle. The idea is to transfer weight to the front drive axle and still let the front wheels act independently for max traction. the ride will be better as well.

My Festy (when stock) handled like a refrigerator on a skateboard. When I installed the FMS lowering springs (just the springs on stock struts), it was a totally different car. Body roll was reduced tremendously and the handling is reasonably neutral. I then installed the Moog sway bar end bushings on the stock front bar and 175/50-13 Sumitomos and I love it. This fall I plan on adding a small bar to the stock festy rear beam (like an Aspire has) and see what happens.

I think lowering the center of gravity and increased spring rates was the key. I believe the Aspire suspension swap helps tremendously but only treats the symptoms (body roll) and doesn't address the real problem of high center of gravity and weak springs.

[Movin]

If I was making a street car I would agree as well! I would only use stiffer or no bushings
for racing when the shell is sacrificial. Replacing sway bar rubber in the lower control
arm with heim joints and almost solid plastic in the mount bushings are things that
transmit a lot more of the energy in the sprung part of the suspension to the unsprung
part resulting in cracks in metal around the mount areas. This happens anyway someday
no need to rush things. Also the ride is a little harsher with stiffer components.
I love the adustability of the no front sway bar above, I would figure out how to
put the rubber dampning back in.

[Christ]

If I was making a street car I would agree as well! I would only use stiffer or no bushings
for racing when the shell is sacrificial. Replacing sway bar rubber in the lower control
arm with heim joints and almost solid plastic in the mount bushings are things that
transmit a lot more of the energy in the sprung part of the suspension to the unsprung
part resulting in cracks in metal around the mount areas. This happens anyway someday
no need to rush things. Also the ride is a little harsher with stiffer components.
I love the adustability of the no front sway bar above, I would figure out how to
put the rubber dampning back in.

On the festiva, bolt the adjustable arm directly through the LCA, using a high strength bolt and the stock bushings and washers.

Leave it solid at the cross members or replace the spherical ends with hollow bushed ends.

[Advancedynamix]

^ yup. Isolating vibration is a very important part of a chassis job on the street, track or on the trail. The only chassis that work best with solid bushings are chassis that were designed to absorb high frequency abnormalities in terrain with other components (I.e. wrinkle wall tires, monocoque chassis, precision tuned shock absorbers.) Bushings are a very important part of the chassis ability to absorb and isolate high frequency disturbance. Engine bushings are very important for this as well. If you can feel the engine vibrate, so can your tires. That vibration acts like an impact gun on a bolt, breaking them lose easier with less torque required. The common idea that race cars have to be uncomfortable and difficult to drive is not necessarily true. They just may be uncomfortable at slow speeds, but they should be silky smooth at pace.

[Bert]

Wow!
Lots of nickle&dime discussion and mostly aimed at gearheads and tuners. My backyard/amateur Aspire swap (front sway bar included) has been by far the very best thing I ever did to an otherwise 'sheetbox car' (please no censorship, GenevaDirt) for daily driving and improved ride and handling.
Absolutely no complaints, none.

[Christ]

Bert - It is mostly aimed at Gearheads and tuners, you're right there... the thing is, it's stuff that literally anyone with basic skills can do. None of the work is very complicated if you have any sort of mechanical experience (or general tool use experience) and can understand simple concepts, such as "Insert slot A into receiver A", honestly.

It just takes a bit of self-esteem and understanding that if you take the problem in bits, it's not a problem.

One awesome thing is that the frame rail separation between the Festiva and Civic is pretty close to even, so the Honda bar could might work with minimal modification. (Modification meaning cut it in half and weld a slug into the tube to shorten it width-wise, and possibly make some plates to bolt it to the car.) Other than that, the torsion bars will bolt right in place of the stock swaybar.

The cost is slightly prohibitive, though for those units if "cheap" is the mod you need.

[zoom zoom]

Ok, sorry it took so long, day late and a dollar short..story of my life. Anyway, here's some pics of the Rio's LCA bar, it has a sway bar integrated into the struts with link rods too, I don't know if I have any good pictures of the stock setup? Might be some in the photobucket album.










from the center of the LCA (bolt still holding the lca to the bar) it's just about 2' I put the Kia LCA in my aspire, you can see the Rio LCA has a sharper curve which locates the ball joint about 5-6" further foward in the wheel well, which would not work, the strut would rub on the tower... The front eye of the bar DID line up perfect centered on the front frame rail. I had a skinnier bolt than the actual one used, and I pulled the eye outward, I think it would line up perfect with the stock aspire ball joint location and still be directly under the front frame rail.

I have measurements of the Aspires engine bay, does anybody have a heartless festiva laying around that wants to take some measurements?

/e sorry, my dog couldn't miss the photo op...she's being needy tonite.

[Christ]

What msm's do you need? Im cutting up the '93 soon...

[Advancedynamix]

interesting

[zoom zoom]

I left the paper at home, I'll make a paint drawing and do a diagram thing later, but I measured a couple things, the most interesting part is that the strut towers are almost (and might be exactly) identical between Festiva and aspire, it wasn't off much, less than 1/4" and my Festiva measurement was disrupted by the coil bracket, so it may be the same.

from the middle of the lca bolt hole to the middle of the other lca bolt hole.

From the inside of the frame rail to inside of frame rail by the firewall, not exactly against the firewall, just before it starts to bend out.

Inside frame rail to inside frame rail at the wider point behind the radiator support.

Firewall to radiator support, upper and lower...not the dents out on the firewall, as far back as you can go on it.

Frontside of LCA box to front frame rail.

Any other measurements that might be important! I'm not a pro so I just guessed at what I needed to measure.