Stock Set-up and 15 x 6.5 Wheels: Too Big?

[Twistiva]

OK, I've got stock equipment (springs, struts, etc) on my 88L. Everything is factory. Would like to go with a 15 x 6.5 wheel, the standard lug pattern (4 x 114.3) and a 195-15-45 tire (Nexen N3000).

Will it fit?

The post below said the 195-15-45 Nexen N3000's will fit with no spacers on the fronts and a total of 7/16 spacers on the rear (he started with 5/16" spacers on the back but added 1/8" later on):

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/showthread.php?20387-TaDa!-15-quot-x6-quot-Sentra-Steelies-Nexxan-195-45R15-tires-5-16-quot-spacers-stock-springs&highlight=powder+coat

However....his wheels were 15 x 6, not 15 x 6.5. Plus his offset was 40mm and the offset of the wheel I'm considering is a 42mm offset (can't get the wheel I want in anything less than 42mm).

I've tried to do my share of homework on this before posting and if I understand it right, the 42mm offset wheel would bring the entire wheel/tire assembly 2mm further away from the struts, etc (yeah, I know, 2mm, big whoop...). The wheel is physically 1/2" wider but 'birdman' was using the exact same tires I'd like to buy so each sidewall of the tire gets pulled out 1/4" wider than his but the end result should be....it should still work as long as I use the 7/16" spacers on the rear, correct?

And....how wide of a tire has anyone put on a Festy using ~ 40mm offset and NOT put on wheelwell flares and it still look good? (Don't want to roll any fenders, either.) Notice in the link above 'birdman' posted pix of the 195-15-45 N3000s from the front/back but the angle blocks the view of how they really look right in the fender area.

Since you can't return mounted wheels, I don't want to buy something and lose probably half my money selling them to someone else so I'd appreciate words of wisdom from those who are knowledeable on wheel/tire swaps.

Thanks!

[Flyin4stroke]

Stock Set-up and 15 x 6.5 Wheels: Too Big?

Sounds like you have done a little research. I ran 195/45/15 for a set of tires I only used spacers in the back with a 15 38+mm offset. The fronts work. Didn't change anything with the wheels when I went to kyb/fms springs setup. Now I'm running a 195/50/15 lowered and it only hits in the back with a lot of weight.

[DriverOne]

OK, I've got stock equipment (springs, struts, etc) on my 88L. Everything is factory. Would like to go with a 15 x 6.5 wheel, the standard lug pattern (4 x 114.3) and a 195-15-45 tire (Nexen N3000).

The tire will fit the wheel, no problem.

if I understand it right, the 42mm offset wheel would bring the entire wheel/tire assembly 2mm further away from the struts, etc (yeah, I know, 2mm, big whoop...). The wheel is physically 1/2" wider but 'birdman' was using the exact same tires I'd like to buy so each sidewall of the tire gets pulled out 1/4" wider than his but the end result should be....it should still work as long as I use the 7/16" spacers on the rear, correct?

You're backwards there. The higher the offset is in a positive, the CLOSER the wheel is to the struts. A +42 offset is 4mm higher than the stock wheel, so if it were the stock wheel, you'd immediately lose 4mm there. Spacers will definitely be necessary, and I would go so far as to say that you'll need 3/4" spacers to make your wheels work, which effectively changes your offset to +23, which makes the wheels stick out farther than they would if you just bolted them on. Check this out: http://www.rimsntires.com/specs.jsp.

Something else that I forgot to mention: Take the weight of those wheels into consideration against the stock wheels. The rolling mass of the larger wheel and tire will play a factor in your stopping distance if it exceeds the weight of the stock wheel and tire combo at all. There are three things you can do. 1, a larger brake master cylinder (Aspire, '94 Prelude), 2, the best pads and shoes you can buy, or 3, swap the knuckle assembly in from a Capri. Same bolt pattern, much larger brakes. Downside to #3 is that you can't use the stock wheels ever again, because they're too small to fit over the Capri calipers.

[Bert]

If I was you I'd be shopping for the entire undercarraige out of an dead or dying Aspire rather than investing serious coins on fancy wheels and tires for a car that currently (OEM) does not handle nor brake in any sort of way that befits "look-at-me!" wheels. Hang the Aspire/Rio swap on there first and then you'll be better able to benefit from a firm ride and 'real' wheels.

Back in my time the young guys used to jack up the rear end of their RWD cars, put oversize tires at the back and paint the diffs in a loud colour. Dual exhausts were also cool, even if there was only a six under the hood. Didn't make the cars go any faster or better but did individualize what otherwise could have been mother's grocery getter.

[Twistiva]

If I was you I'd be shopping for the entire undercarraige out of an dead or dying Aspire rather than investing serious coins on fancy wheels and tires for a car that currently (OEM) does not handle nor brake in any sort of way that befits "look-at-me!" wheels. Hang the Aspire/Rio swap on there first and then you'll be better able to benefit from a firm ride and 'real' wheels.

Bert -

Your plan makes sense except....

- Don't think I have the skills right now to do the Aspire swap
- Don't have the time to do an Aspire swap (eyeball deep in remodeling my home)
- Don't plan on driving my Festiva hard/don't meed to 'max perform' the brakes

Just want to make my Festiva look nice. What can I say?, I'm a shallow person.....

Maybe someday I will do the Aspire swap....I keep hearing people rave about it but other than more kinds/styles wheels can be mounted (if I got that right) and I guess better braking capability I'm not sure why it's so popular.

Thx for the advice, though.

Cheers.

[DriverOne]

Re: Stock Set-up and 15 x 6.5 Wheels: Too Big?

I hope the wheels you want are dual pattern. If so, you'll be doing well to buy them, as you'll be prepared for the Aspire swap without a need for purchasing new wheels.

[fastivaca]

Re: Stock Set-up and 15 x 6.5 Wheels: Too Big?

Maybe someday I will do the Aspire swap....I keep hearing people rave about it but other than more kinds/styles wheels can be mounted (if I got that right) and I guess better braking capability I'm not sure why it's so popular.

Cheers.

Aside from the bigger, better brakes the biggest advantage to the Aspire swap is that the front rotors can be replaced without taking the whole steering knuckle apart.

Sent from somewhere west of here via Tapatalk!

[Bert]

Maybe someday I will do the Aspire swap....I keep hearing people rave about it but other than more kinds/styles wheels can be mounted (if I got that right) and I guess better braking capability I'm not sure why it's so popular.

See if you can find someone near you that has done the swap and ask for a test drive. You'll experience and likely hear that it was the best thing he/she had ever done to the car. Once you've grown accustomed to changing rotors in 15 minutes (good luck doing that in 1/2 day on an OEM Festy) and realizing that there are a million used VW/Honda/Toyota/Mazda/Kia etc etc 4 x 100 pattern rims out there to choose from (ie real bargains) you might change your mind.

[Twistiva]

Aside from the bigger, better brakes the biggest advantage to the Aspire swap is that the front rotors can be replaced without taking the whole steering knuckle apart.

Once you've grown accustomed to changing rotors in 15 minutes (good luck doing that in 1/2 day on an OEM Festy).......you might change your mind.

Ian / Bert -

Thx for that info. Definitely did not know that before.

Knowledge is power, eh? :thumbs_up:

[Twistiva]

You're backwards there. The higher the offset is in a positive, the CLOSER the wheel is to the struts.

Ah, crap. You're right. I looked at this diagram backwards: http://wheeltool.com/info/offset.html
When I looked at the "Positive Offset" diagram above I was thinking the car was positioned to the right of the picture of the wheel, not to the left. Nuts.

Spacers will definitely be necessary, and I would go so far as to say that you'll need 3/4" spacers to make your wheels work........

OK, so the standard Festy wheel is +38mm offset and the wheel I'm considering buying is +42mm, a difference of 4mm. However....'birdman' used a set-up of +40mm with 7/16" spacers and I'm only going 2mm more than that. 2mm is slightly less than 1.5/16" (3/32") so I'd need at least 7/16" + 1.5/16" = 8.5/16" (17/32") and you recommend 12/16". Just how big of a spacer can you use (max width) and not cause any problems? Is there any limit? I want to have to use as small a spacer as possible (I may try 9/16" first?, because the tires are already 195mm wide) but does anyone out there see any problems with a 3/4" spacer on the rear wheels?

.......and I would go so far as to say that you'll need 3/4" spacers to make your wheels work, which effectively changes your offset to +23, which makes the wheels stick out farther than they would if you just bolted them on.

You lost me there. How are you getting an effective offset of +23?
3/4" is about 19mm.....is that the 42mm wheel offset - 19mm spacer = 23mm?

Thanks, DriverOne, for your replies. I'm getting smarter. Need to get smarter still.....

[DriverOne]

Re: Stock Set-up and 15 x 6.5 Wheels: Too Big?

It's all good, and yes, you're right. What you're doing is changing the offset of the wheel by adding spacers. What normally would have tucked under will now stick out. By attempting to avoid the struts, you're going to need some fender rolling. Are you absolutely sure those are the EXACT wheels, and you can't see the car with anything else? If that's the case, I recommend using some aftermarket coilovers to add usable space to your fender wells. Then you won't need such big spacers.

[FestYboy]

ok twist, here's where I'm gonna stop you before you get yourself in trouble. From here on out, you have to think in terms of back spacing, not offset. They are related to eachother, but only in the sense of the both have something to do with where the wheel hub face is.

What you need to know is what's the MAXIMUM backspacing you can fit before you start hitting suspention pieces.

Rright now you want a 15x6.5 +42 (1.66")wheel, that gives you a backspacing of 6.5/2+1.66 = 4.91" birdman uses 15x6 +40 (1.575") which is 6/2+1.575 = 4.575"
the Festy uses a 12x5 +38 (1.5") which is 5/2+1.5 = 4"

The reason i'm taking the width and dividing by 2 is because the offset is the differance from the wheel centerline (half the width). So your +/- offset numbers come from that. if i were to have a 8" wide rim with a +0 offset, you have a backspacing of 4" and if that same rim had a -25mm offset, the backspacing would be just under 3", where a +25mm offset will yield a 5" backspace.

so figure you can have a max of 4.4" backspace in a Festy and work from there. use the spacers to alter the offset #. I get that you need a 29mm offset total which nets a 13mm spacer to fit.

[Twistiva]

By attempting to avoid the struts, you're going to need some fender rolling.

Fender rolling: you really think so? For a wheel / tire combo only 2mm wider than 'thirdman's'? Look at this pix of 'thirdman's' Festy: (hopefully it will post). Plus, look at how much vertical clearance he has between his tires and the wheel wells (though, granted, there's no extra weight [driver, passenger, stuff] in his car in this pix)

ok twist, here's where I'm gonna stop you before you get yourself in trouble. From here on out, you have to think in terms of back spacing, not offset. They are related to eachother, but only in the sense of the both have something to do with where the wheel hub face is.

What you need to know is what's the MAXIMUM backspacing you can fit before you start hitting suspention pieces.

Rright now you want a 15x6.5 +42 (1.66")wheel, that gives you a backspacing of 6.5/2+1.66 = 4.91" birdman uses 15x6 +40 (1.575") which is 6/2+1.575 = 4.575"
the Festy uses a 12x5 +38 (1.5") which is 5/2+1.5 = 4"

The reason i'm taking the width and dividing by 2 is because the offset is the differance from the wheel centerline (half the width). So your +/- offset numbers come from that. if i were to have a 8" wide rim with a +0 offset, you have a backspacing of 4" and if that same rim had a -25mm offset, the backspacing would be just under 3", where a +25mm offset will yield a 5" backspace.

so figure you can have a max of 4.4" backspace in a Festy and work from there. use the spacers to alter the offset #. I get that you need a 29mm offset total which nets a 13mm spacer to fit.

FestYboy -

OK, I'll have to go through your math tomorrow. Not saying your wrong, just want to take some time to get smart on the backspacing stuff; that's new to me. Thanks for posting!

If anyone else wants to chime in, please do! :thumbs_up:

[DriverOne]

Re: Stock Set-up and 15 x 6.5 Wheels: Too Big?

Festyboy hit the nail on the head there. It seems I was 5mm off concerning spacer sizing. The picture you posted shows me that the outer tread will rub if there is anything heavy in the car, or if it dips in the road, or under moderate cornering. That's why I suggested rolling the fenders. The goal is to achieve full suspension travel without the tires rubbing. This might warrant a video explanation.

[FestYboy]

i run a 14x6 +35mm with a 185/60 tire, i had to roll the fenders. You plan to run a 10mm wider tire, you will also have to roll your fenders.