Enhancing Steering Responsiveness & Feel

[Aaronbrook37]

So I'll admit I haven't done a ton of searching, but I'm hoping that there will some fresh ideas and some good anecdotal assistance on this thread as to how I can spice things up in the steering feel department. At the present time, my steering feels a bit withdrawn and detached even though of course it's a manual rack and relatively decent tires. Here's my current setup:

185/60-14 Generic All Season Tires with 14x5.5 Steelies
Aspire Swap, 5/8" Threaded Rear Rod, 26mm Front Swaybar, and Control Arm Brace
Stock Steering Wheel, Control Arm, Bushings, and Tie Rods
KYB Shocks and 175/150lb 8" Coilover Springs

I'd like to be able to really feel a bit more of the road in my wheel (vibration and grip mostly), and have the steering feel a bit more direct and tighter. It feels like I'm driving on ice at times, especially in the wet... not because the car is slipping, but because I can't really feel where the wheel is going when turning. There's no slop or slack in the rack or anything, but it's a bit too passive and with an aggressive engine and driving style, I could use some extra umpph.

What I'll be changing out soon:

-Control Arms, Inner Tie Rods, Outer Tie Rods, Swaybar-Control Arm Bushings (Moog), Swaybar-Chassis Bushings (Energy Suspension), New 185/60-13 Performance Tires, Honda VX Rims

I'm hoping that a new front end and some stronger bushings with new tires will make a big difference, but maybe there's more to it than meets the eye. There'sGabe recently mentioned getting more of a go-cart feel out of a smaller steering wheel, which definitely has some appeal to me even though I'd like to keep the stock interior. Any thoughts or experience on this? The car turns nice and remains flat through the corners, but I'd like to get some of that rigidity in the suspension and steering too! Thanks all.

Maybe I need some KYB strut hats for a Rio, or some beefier shocks?

[sketchman]

Positive Caster.

In general, what you want is enough caster to give the driver really good steering feel, enough camber to keep the contact patch flat in a corner, and just a hair of toe in at both ends for a modicum of stability.

Up front, we run maximum camber, maximum caster, and as close to zero toe as we can get without going toe-out.This makes front end alignments really easy, as you simply swing camber and caster adjusters to their max settings and then set toe with a tape measure.

After blowing up a power steering line and realizing we didn't really need power steering anyway, we briefly toyed with the idea of running less than the maximum caster in an effort to reduce steering effort and driver fatigue. That was an unmitigated disaster. Steering effort went away completely when the car was loaded up in a corner, causing the driver to lose any feeling of grip, inadvertently make wild, erratic steering inputs, and cause the car to go into a wallowing, under-damped oscillatory fit of slowness. The number of ways the car goes dynamnically wrong with minium caster is simply shocking. We immediately swung the adjusters back to max and got on with going fast.

From here:http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...a-hacksaw.aspx

[DriverOne]

Definitely get the RIO strut mounts. There was one thing that I saw that you will definitely want to change, and that's your tire choice. You're looking at a 60 profile tire, at 6.5" wide. That means that you're riding on bubbles, with sidewalls that will move. I suggest a swap to a 14" wheel with a 165/55R14 tire. That tire, while the sidewall is 55, is 55% of the 165mm wide tire, instead of the 60% of the 185mm wide tire. It's also the stock OD of the Festiva tires, which will give you much better response in acceleration, braking, and cornering. Upgrade all the bushings you can to Energy Suspension bushings, and search for AdvanceDynamix's shift bushing replacement method. That will give you more feeling.

[Aaronbrook37]

Positive Caster.


From here:http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...a-hacksaw.aspx

Wow... that's hardcore stuff. I'm going to sit down and really go through that to be sure of what its saying. Thanks for the link and input.

Definitely get the RIO strut mounts. There was one thing that I saw that you will definitely want to change, and that's your tire choice. You're looking at a 60 profile tire, at 6.5" wide. That means that you're riding on bubbles, with sidewalls that will move. I suggest a swap to a 14" wheel with a 165/55R14 tire. That tire, while the sidewall is 55, is 55% of the 165mm wide tire, instead of the 60% of the 185mm wide tire. It's also the stock OD of the Festiva tires, which will give you much better response in acceleration, braking, and cornering. Upgrade all the bushings you can to Energy Suspension bushings, and search for AdvanceDynamix's shift bushing replacement method. That will give you more feeling.

Strut mounts are ordered off Ebay just now. I had no luck finding any used, so those'll go in probably in the next couple weeks. Unfortunately, I already have the wheels and tires ready to go. We'll see how lighter wheel/tire combinations affects things... but unfortunately I'll be stuck with a 60 sidewall. The stock OD of the Festiva tires matches up perfectly with 185/60-13's... that's why I ordered them originally. I will do my best to get ES bushings everywhere, but I'm struggling to get any for the inner control arms at the moment. I already have shift bushings that are harder plastic, but I may upgrade to Charlie's setup in the near future for sure.

[FestYboy]

another way to help combat the pillowy feel of excessive sidewall hight that is also pinched by too narrow of a rim is to widen the rim. you say you have a set of 185/60/13 tires, but fail to mention the rim width. with that tire i would run a minimum of 7" wide rim. this will stretch the tire a little and load the sidewall, makeing it less likely to squirm under load. (the same can be said for the 185/60/14 on 5.5" that you're running now... if you were to run a 6.5" rim the attitude of the car would change)

[DriverOne]

^^^

[sketchman]

^Just dropped some knowledge on ya.

[bobbyspider]

another way to help combat the pillowy feel of excessive sidewall hight that is also pinched by too narrow of a rim is to widen the rim. you say you have a set of 185/60/13 tires, but fail to mention the rim width. with that tire i would run a minimum of 7" wide rim. this will stretch the tire a little and load the sidewall, makeing it less likely to squirm under load. (the same can be said for the 185/60/14 on 5.5" that you're running now... if you were to run a 6.5" rim the attitude of the car would change)

show off

[Aaronbrook37]

another way to help combat the pillowy feel of excessive sidewall hight that is also pinched by too narrow of a rim is to widen the rim. you say you have a set of 185/60/13 tires, but fail to mention the rim width. with that tire i would run a minimum of 7" wide rim. this will stretch the tire a little and load the sidewall, makeing it less likely to squirm under load. (the same can be said for the 185/60/14 on 5.5" that you're running now... if you were to run a 6.5" rim the attitude of the car would change)

Oh well that's just fine and dandy. Wish I had figured this out in my stupid brain before ordering the tires. I've got a 5" wide wheel... these are the high fuel economy 9.8lb super-lights from Honda. Ah well... we'll see how she does once they're pumped up and bolted on the car with a few suspension tweaks and a rebuilt front-end. Hopefully that'll help somewhat.

[gestiva]

Im running these tires $198 shipped


They are on 80's toyota car rim 13x5.5? I believe. when I had coilovers on my green car it handled like it was on RAILS! no slop
or nothing even in Very tight fast cornering. now that they are on my white car with stock springs, and monroe aspire struts/shocks
it still handles Amazing! with the Power steering, its very smooth turning no matter the speed with hardly much roll.

[M3NTAL]

Don't use stock sway bar bushings Aaron. Buy moog's.

Ok I just read that you were going to change them. Duh

It was night and day difference with my torque steer issue.

[Aaronbrook37]

Don't use stock sway bar bushings Aaron. Buy moog's.

Ok I just read that you were going to change them. Duh

It was night and day difference with my torque steer issue.

Yep. I've got all three/six bushings ready to change out. ES for the swaybar-chassis, Moog for swaybar-control arm, and Super-Pro for control-arm inner. Very excited to see the difference!

[Tommychu]

Strut mounts are ordered off Ebay just now. I had no luck finding any used, so those'll go in probably in the next couple weeks.

That's probably for the best. Because the Rio hats use HAC ball bearings (which is the entire reason they're better than Festy/Aspire hats) and the nature of the application, any used one you found would probably be brinelled to crap if the car they came out of has seen any amount of highway use. Personally I was able to get Rio Monroe Strut-Mates for about the same price as the JY charges for them anyway.

[Aaronbrook37]

That's probably for the best. Because the Rio hats use HAC ball bearings (which is the entire reason they're better than Festy/Aspire hats) and the nature of the application, any used one you found would probably be brinelled to crap if the car they came out of has seen any amount of highway use. Personally I was able to get Rio Monroe Strut-Mates for about the same price as the JY charges for them anyway.

Good to hear. I figured the new ones would be a good investment seeing as 2001-2002 was a considerably long time ago. Combined with my coilovers and 10-year-old KYB's, there should be considerable improvement. Thanks for the info... I was always curious how exactly they were better!

[Tommychu]

I was always curious how exactly they were better!

Yeah, and it's a _huge_ difference, considering the pivot point is established by little more than a slightly greasy washer in the Festiva/Aspire and the entire weight of the car sits on said washer (and IMO the factory used the wrong grease, it feels like an NLGI #2, maaaaybe a #3 when it should have been a #4, maybe even a #5). The Rio weighs ~600lbs more than the Festiva so that's the only way they could have kept the same setup without power steering.

Since I set my car on Rio struts it steers easier than my Toyota. Almost as easy as my F150. Both are P/S equipped and have steering wheels at least 1.5" bigger than the Festy.