FMS lowering springs?

[bobstad]

I installed a set of the FMS lowering springs several months ago, doing the back ones first and then the front a few weeks later.

When I installed the ones on the rear I immeadiately noticed that when entering a parking lot with a sharp incline up from the street I'd get a loud high pitched "scrunch" like noise and that this happens on any sort of a sharp jolt in the roadway.(though I was certain this was not my tires rubbing anywhere)

When I installed the front springs the same thing happened on that end of my car also.

This is really disconcerting in the long drive from Eureka to Berkeley on highway 101 where there are a lot of dips and irregularities in the road and going around corners and such.(when I'm trying to make time real late at nite, etc.)

I'm not a great enthusiast as a mechanic so have not torn into things to see what might be wrong, but I think I did the job correctly and since I had four chances to foul things up and got the exact same result each time I think the problem might be with the product?

One theory I have is that the springs might have a steeper angle to the coil than the stock ones and I've wondered if the edge at the top might be rubbing on something for this reason? If I took them apart and let a good machinist friend grind away at that edge might this be a solution? Or does anyone have any other ideas?

I'd like to fix this, but don't want to have my car tore apart again without knowing what I'm doing if I can help it.

[25Horseplay]

I have FMS springs on my car and I don't have any noise from them. This is the first I have heard of any noise like you describe.

[oxbrain]

Can you make it happen by sitting on the bumper?

Both of my cars squeak a little from the rear beam mount bushings. A little silicon lube sprayed in there every couple months solves it.

[mechanicaldj]

and did you replace the rubber spring isolators at the top of (tightly wound spring) spring????????????

do you have new struts on the back too?

have you replaced the torsion beam mount bushings????

did you over torque the strut mounts?????????

have you done a rear alignment lately????( yes you can adjust the rear alignment)

[bobstad]

replys, etc.(I'm 55 today; Lenny Bruce died on 8-3-60 at 40)

+++Can you make it happen by sitting on the bumper?+++

-Sitting on the bumper is way too subtle. Same thing jumping on the bumpers with 200+ pounds. Far too little force and/or impact speed.

-This noise is only when there is a sharp jolt more severe than concrete expansion joints and is loud enough to be disconcerting.(or a quick fast dip at 80 mph) There is a concrete freeway bridge on a curve here and every time I go over an out of line joint on one end between the bridge and the macadam I get these noises.

-Like the joke about a frustrated hitch-hiker trying to get a ride laying in the road who no one slows down for or avoids. "Thump-thump" etcetera but instead "SKRINCH-SKRINCH" like fingernails on a blackboard annoying only lots louder. Or at much slower speed coming off the street into parking lots where the angle is steep and abrupt; I've gotten so I slow down out of habit so this rarely happens-always sounds about the same fast or slow.

+++Both of my cars squeak a little from the rear beam mount bushings. A little silicon lube sprayed in there every couple months solves it.+++

-I've never noticed anything like that before or after the FMS springs. This noise is obviously from both the front and rear and exactly the same on either end.

+++and did you replace the rubber spring isolators at the top of (tightly wound spring) spring????????????+++

-Those "spring seat insulators" are looking culpable though they'd worked fine with the stock springs. When I talked to FMS they said I might be able to use the old ones, maybe not.(I hadn't seen mine yet) They were a little worn looking, but seemed adequate. Haynes recommends using rubber lubricant on them which I'd overlooked until rereading the manual again just now.

-I'd like "better than OEM replacements" as the originals look fatigued if they're the fault.(130,000 miles) Doing a search awhile ago I'd seen someone used inner tube rubber or similar along with OEM insulators, but I couldn't find that post again so I'm not sure why and they'd seemed unhappy with the result.(?)

-The only thing I may've fudged on was not using rubber lubricant on the washer next to the bushing or bearing at the tops of the struts where there seemed to be adequate lubrication already.(the Ford manual doesn't mention this, but Haynes does) I've wondered if this might be the problem?(also no rubber lubricant on the spring seat insulators?)

+++do you have new struts on the back too?+++

-New KYB-GR2 struts on front and back both.(the old backs were shot but the fronts seemed good enough to save)

+++have you replaced the torsion beam mount bushings????+++

-No. There was no noise before the new springs and struts.

+++did you over-torque the strut mounts?????????+++

-Everything was torqued to spec. Haynes calls for ten foot pounds more on the rear bottom bolts than Ford so likely thats what I used.

+++have you done a rear alignment lately????( yes you can adjust the rear alignment)+++

-I keep the front end aligned and they check the whole thing and I never need a rear alignment.

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Judging by this dialogue it seems I should try replacing the worn spring seat insulators?(good time to have some rubber lubricant on hand)

If it is the spring seat insulators is there chance of damage if I avoid roads or places which make the noise happen?(until convenient to replace them)

Since FMS changed the format of their on-line catalogue it seems some parts available before aren't anymore. Are any of their previous suspension items missing? Is there anything else from them or elsewhere I might want to replace going through everything a second time?

I'm thinking of putting the stock front springs back on as the FMS front springs are buckboard-like on rough roadways. The stock rear springs were very flimsy which driving with FMS rear springs and stock front springs seemed to greatly improve upon as well as the general ride and handling.(a previous owner had aftermarket spacers between the rear spring coils that didn't do much-the type in J. C. Whitney catalogues decades ago known for breaking springs I'd thought long off the market)

With stock springs the car felt top-heavy, wallowed and had less directional stability; so that rolling over in an emergency seemed possible and less than relaxing to drive normally. Some sacrifice in handling on a smooth road with stock front springs and rear FMS springs might be worth the better rough road ride.(I'm using 13" '87 Mazda 323 rims with 155-80R13 tires and would use wider tires if they didn't rub on the rear struts?)

[25Horseplay]

FMS has LOTS of parts that are not listed on the website. The best thing to do is call and ask them if the have what you are looking for.

[PaulLehr]

On the way back from my trip to PA with my new B6T in the trunk of my Festiva I got noises similar to what you describe. It turned out that even with Aspire springs struts brakes and wheels that it was sagging enough over large dips to rub the tires on the inside of the rear fender lip. That's a loud scary sound to hear at Midnight on the highway after driving for the last 12 hours straight :shock:

[mechanicaldj]

so why did you exactly buy the FMS lowering springs????

no one buys lowering springs for the ride quality

lowered springs means less widely spaced coils or just less coils to absorb the road shocks and bumps which in turn gives a harsher ride and lower weight capacity

you buy the lowering springs for the lowered look or the better handling characteristics

[darkdan]

I bought them because my front springs were broken and it was much more cost effective to go with FMS springs. =)

[bobstad]

Festiva front end alignment complaints

I wouldn't mind the rough ride if it didn't mean the front end was going out of alignment. I'd been used to a '66 VW Type 3 that I could thrash unmercifully(to the occupants not the car) over any kind of road and the front end never went out of alignment, but with my Festiva if I even look at it cross-eyed I feel like I have to go and get the front end aligned again.(the wear patterns on the tires when I got it were really incredible from the alignment being so bad)

If it weren't for trying to get rid of this noise I wouldn't think about putting the stock front springs back in again and would change my driving habits to adapt to FMS springs all the way around glady as I doubt anyone is all that happy with my dust.

But, and I think this is subtle, the compromise of stock fronts and FMS rears is an effective adaptation to a variety of my driving styles that may be best advantaged if I can't live with this crazy noise.(for whatever reasons) I had to jump a curb once to avoid rear-ending someone at the bottom of a freeway off-ramp and if I'd had on the FMS front springs I likely would've damaged the bottom of the motor from being that much lower.(due to a brake malfunction because the previous owner had failed to properly lubricate one of the pins the front brake calipers float on while doing a brake job that was a selling point)

At least on my car the FMS rear springs don't seem to lower the car as much by a long shot as their front ones do. I very much like the improved handling with the lower springs in front, but with the stock ones the steering felt better because the geometry was correct.

I've wondered whether or not the strengthened lower control arm FMS sells would make for less vulnerability of the front alignment and if there are any other aftermarket pieces I might want to include in my upgrade?(likely a fantasy) I know the online place the KYBs are from(The Tire Rack) sells a couple of aftermarket upgrades that allow greater versatility to the front alignment and may help to make it stronger.

Though these are all probabley mute considerations. The main idea was to be safer in any high speed manuever and not as stressed from lack of directional stability while driving otherwise.

[Guest]

Did you get an alignment and/or use camber bolts?
On one car I had the strut mount holes elongated.
The other I used camber bolts.. both ways fixed the geometry.

[bobstad]

after I put the FMS springs on both the front and rear I went and got an alignment and they said it was reasonable and came out right.

The difference in the steering I notice is a little subtle, but more like you have to return the steering wheel to center now than before when it wanted to come back itself after going around a corner. I'm enough of a non-mechanic that unless I were to try having wider tires and did whatever was necessary for that to keep them from rubbing on my rear struts I don't think I will want to get into really extensive modifications.

Though with 155 80R-13 tires that don't rub on the rear struts and having driven a short ways on wider tires before I noticed the rubbing problem I can see the wider tires would be a great advantage and improve the ride profoundly. I don't drive a whole lot but like to take an occassional long drive of around 1,500 miles every six months or so and shorter ones of 600 miles quarterly to access urban areas and resources not available locally and that is when having wider tires and really good handling seems very attractive. Just a matter of finding the time, money and initiative not to mention the intelligence of what to do.