5-6" Drop with VW KYB's Converted to Coilovers?

[theastronaut]

I'm new here and new to Festivas, just bought my first one about a month ago. It's an '88 L four speed with 127K miles.

I found the "Advanced Suspension Mods" thread and have read it through a couple times. Tons of great info there. I'm pretty sure I want to do MK2/3 front and MK1 rear KYB GR2 struts converted to coilovers to help the handling of the car. My last car was an '87 Chrysler Conquest TSi so I miss having a car that has that much grip.

My question is, how low do the converted GR2's go? I read that there is still room to go lower in the rear with a around a 3" drop... how low can they go? I'm looking to get the wheel's lip (14x5.5 Escort/Tempo slots) close to the lip of the fender. Not as crazy as the "hellaflush" look but closer to that than a 3-4" drop. The tires are 165/55r14 Achilles, they just arrived yesterday so I haven't had them mounted yet.

I've been looking into raised strut mounts to get a more drop if the converted KYB's don't have enough travel. Anyone done that before with a Festiva? Are there any other issues with dropping a Festiva 5-6"?


Here is the car, all stock at the moment. I did change out the shifter bushings as described in one of the threads here (shoulder bolts and nylon washers) and added a Civic short shifter. Big improvement in how it shifts!




The wheels. They're 14x5.5 from a late 80's Tempo or Escort. They are 4x108 so I had to get adapters.




They stick out about an inch. Shouldn't be a problem one I pull the fenders and add 2-3 degrees of camber.






And a side shot.




This is the look I'm wanting.

[TominMO]

Using the VW KYBs on the rear will automatically give you about a 2" drop, at the highest setting. You can go lower from there. Don't know if you will be able to use those wheels/adaptors, unless you plan on doing some alteration to the front and rear fenders. I don't think a couple degrees of camber in the front is gonna fix it; and radical camber will cause its own problems, and safety issues perhaps. Rather than screw around with adapters, just get wheels with the correct bolt pattern; solves the problem.

I am running the 165/55x14 Achilles ATR-K Economist tires on 6"-wide AR Estrellas, With these rear struts and stock springs. "Poor man's coilover" :-) I cut the front spring one coil to even out the ride. Looks great.

[theastronaut]

I won't be running over 3* of camber, no issues with that amount. I can pull the front fenders out 3/8" by hand without spending much time trying, so I'm sure I can pull the them out enough to clear the wheels/tires even with the adapters. I read here that the rears can be pulled out around an inch so I should be able to get them to fit.

[Festiva_Fred]

Shouldn't be a issue getting it to drop that low on the coilovers.. But don't expect it to drive decently at all. I had my front this low when I first put my front coilovers on, and had lots of thread left to go down lower. DSC07245.jpg But I raised it 3/4-1 inch or so, so it was more friendly for daily driving, it scraped the shipping hooks on everything that low, I'm running 155/55/14 tires.

[theastronaut]

That's good to know. I'm used to driving low cars, my other daily is a '64 VW bug that's around 2.75" off the ground with an empty tank and no passengers. It'll knock reflectors off the road with passengers.

[Festiva_Fred]

Sweet VW! :thumbright:

[Advancedynamix]

Nice Bug! And I'm excited to see more stance enthusiasm on here. I'm all about function over form, but being toothed on the stretchy cambered DTM, BTCC,and Can Am cars of the 70's, 80's, and 90's, I can't help but get excited over the current stance craze. I run -3.4 degrees on my street festy and it's not only comfortable and easy to drive, it handles great on the limit and will provide better fuel economy when my car is dialed in. Even with 3.4 degrees negative camber, I wear the outside edges off my street tires on the track. These cars grip like nothing else, and will easily embarrass a TSi when set up properly.
The rear kyb mk1 setup will drop 5" and still ride decent, but the car won't be optimized for performance that low because the angle of your beam, and you'd also need to shorten the shock shafts 2 inches to be in the correct range of the shock stroke and reduce the static sag, but it's doable.
Your wheels will tuck in with 3 degrees negative. I'm running 14x7 Turbines with 165/55-14 Achilles tires. I just installed them yesterday. I need to roll and stretch a little more to properly tuck, but it is nearly perfect fitment. Take care when rolling and stretching. The rear fenders take patience to get right, and if you rush it then it'll look horrible. Judging by your bug, you like your ride to look well built though, so I have faith.

[Advancedynamix]

Crappy picture I took this morning, it needs more low, but this is with 3" Drop with et25 14x7 wheels with 165/55-14 tires and -3.4 camber with .5 degree toe F/R

[scitzz]

Love that bug!

[sketchman]

Nice. Can't wait to see this done.

[theastronaut]

Nice Bug! And I'm excited to see more stance enthusiasm on here. I'm all about function over form, but being toothed on the stretchy cambered DTM, BTCC,and Can Am cars of the 70's, 80's, and 90's, I can't help but get excited over the current stance craze. I run -3.4 degrees on my street festy and it's not only comfortable and easy to drive, it handles great on the limit and will provide better fuel economy when my car is dialed in. Even with 3.4 degrees negative camber, I wear the outside edges off my street tires on the track. These cars grip like nothing else, and will easily embarrass a TSi when set up properly.
The rear kyb mk1 setup will drop 5" and still ride decent, but the car won't be optimized for performance that low because the angle of your beam, and you'd also need to shorten the shock shafts 2 inches to be in the correct range of the shock stroke and reduce the static sag, but it's doable.
Your wheels will tuck in with 3 degrees negative. I'm running 14x7 Turbines with 165/55-14 Achilles tires. I just installed them yesterday. I need to roll and stretch a little more to properly tuck, but it is nearly perfect fitment. Take care when rolling and stretching. The rear fenders take patience to get right, and if you rush it then it'll look horrible. Judging by your bug, you like your ride to look well built though, so I have faith.

Appreciate you commenting! I did all the work to drop the VW myself, had to cut and narrow the front beam 3" to get the wheels to tuck under the fenders and still have full turning radius. It has decent grip for how low it is, .79g with the back end losing grip way early because of the (temporarily) mis-matched tire sizes (195/50 front/165/80 rear, no longer running those, was just seeing what would fit up front). I expect at least .85-.87g once I get my wider 356 replica wheels finished with better tires, and a rear sway bar.

I actually found a pair of Raceland front coilovers for a MK2/3 Monday so they're on the way. I'll order the rear parts soon along with softer front springs. Does 125/105 pound springs sound good? Has the original engine/trans with no plans to swap.

I do metal/bodywork for a living so getting the fenders stretched out smoothly won't be a problem. I'm currently building the bottom 1/3 of a '40 Packard 120 Comvertible from scratch at work... festy fenders will be easy lol. We just bought a lathe at work but I need to learn how to use it so I can make my own spring hats, etc like you do.


Here are a few pics with the wheels and tires mounted. Needs to come down a looooonnng way.






These two are with a 150 pound friend on the back bumper. Won't take as much camber/pulling to clear as the front will.

[Festiva_Fred]

I'm running 150 fronts, 105 rears currently and love it. I have a B6D and e series, and it feels really good.

[Advancedynamix]

I'm putting 120 lb 10" long springs on the front of my b6d swapped festy this weekend, so I'll let ya know how that works out. The 105lb springs feel good in the back. You can do all sorts of fun stuff with a good lathe, so this should be a fun project.
Since these cars are so light, they don't camber wear the tires much, especially with little to no toe. I drove across country with 3 degrees neg and didn't see any noticeable wear in 6000 miles of highway driving at 80mph. The front fenders will stretch a lot, more than an inch per side without noticeable panel fitment issues. The rear is limited by a spot welded structural reinforcement that is like an inch and a half above the top edge of the fender well. If you pull much more than 5/8th the spots start to really show up in the panel.
I'm excited to see what a body guy can do with one of these cars. Keep the updates coming!

[Advancedynamix]

14x6 Enkei Turbines

There ya go!

[theastronaut]

Ordered the front springs (125/10"), rear struts, front rio mounts, and everything to rebuild the front suspension. The rack seems tight enough, it only has 127k so I'll leave it alone for now. The front racelands still haven't shown up, I may have to file for a refund with PayPal since the dude isn't responding to my messages...

I went ahead and rolled the front fender's inner edge flat and pulled them out about 3/4" per side. Also slotted the holes in the struts to let the spindle lean in for a little negative camber. I heated the bottom coil to drop the front about 1.5", with the heated part collapsed into the spring pocket so it's not stressed. That slightly firmed up the front. It rides better now actually, I didn't like the overly soft ride of the stock setup.

With the wheels and tires mounted it has way more grip compared to the 12's. No rubbing up front with the mild drop but it'll need more pulling and camber to clear at a lower height. I need to sell some more parts so I can buy the rear sleeves and springs, been saving up to build a shop/apartment so I can't spend much at once.