Kia Rio front swaybar and radius rods

[robotrob]

Has anybody thought of fitting the Kia Rio front suspension set up? 2000-2005 Kia Rios run a seperate swaybar and radius rods, 00-02 lower control rods look a lot like aspire ones, 02-05 they changed to a bolt on instead of bolt through rod:






I suppose if the swaybar mount bracket swaps over it'll be halfway there to working, part 23 in this pic:



I'll have to see if I can make it work, unless anyone has already done it then I'll be more eager to spend my own money lol

[FestYboy]

If the parts measure out close that would be a good solution to rid us of the sway bar.

[Advancedynamix]

I've wanted to do this for years. I've wanted to integrate this into one of my lower rad support bars. Rio trailing links are too long to fit in a festiva. I'll have to bend up some of my own bars. Getting the flex right will be a trial and error expirament that I don't have time for right now. The trailing links need to flex and absorb shock loads to help the car maintain grip. The Festiva sway bar does this exceptionally well.

[FestYboy]

Maybe we need to look closer at a justy suspension to get a good starting point.


Funny, I happen to have one in the garage...

[robotrob]

My understanding is that the radius rods/trailing links are as good as solid and only laterally(?) locate the wheel so it doesn't move forwards and backwards in the wheel well, the rio runs a swaybar with traditional links that would perform the job of flexing and absorbing shock loads

The Festiva swaybar has to perform both functions, which it was always my understanding that trying to optimize anything to perform two different functions means it will never be optimal at either.

My thinking was:

Rio front seat bar mounts or similar to allow fitting standard Festiva swaybar (maybe) and rio radius rods (I prefer that term) cut down and rethreaded to fit standard LCAs the modify the end of the swaybar for a link and weld a fitting to the strut somewhere..

Seems doable-ish

I'm not familiar with justy suspension, any pics?

[FestYboy]

Just had a thought: the festy sway bar is solid... So what's stopping us from lopping it in half, milling a groove into each end and coupling them back together to maintain position but allow the articulation we're looking for?

[FestYboy]

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/suspension.jpg

[robotrob]

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-co...suspension.jpg

Those sway bar links to the radius rods look exactly like what I'm talking about, just need to add a stud to the sway bar bracket or the rad support itself, and then a heim joint on the end of a threaded rod should do it...

I might start looking for same large diameter grade 8 allthread and a matching female threaded heim..

It's starting to take shape in my head

[Advancedynamix]

My understanding is that the radius rods/trailing links are as good as solid and only laterally(?) locate the wheel so it doesn't move forwards and backwards in the wheel well, the rio runs a swaybar with traditional links that would perform the job of flexing and absorbing shock loads

The Festiva swaybar has to perform both functions, which it was always my understanding that trying to optimize anything to perform two different functions means it will never be optimal at either.

My thinking was:

Rio front seat bar mounts or similar to allow fitting standard Festiva swaybar (maybe) and rio radius rods (I prefer that term) cut down and rethreaded to fit standard LCAs the modify the end of the swaybar for a link and weld a fitting to the strut somewhere..

You've misunderstood the shock loads that I'm talking about.
The rio trailing links flex and allow the wheel to move forward with TQ load (just like the festiva sway bar does). The rods have an arc and are made of a spring steel. This absorbs abrupt TQ loads and allows the car to maintain traction better than if these rods were solid. This design is genius and works incredibly well. It's one of the reasons that these cars can put down nearly 4 times their stock HP with an open diff on street tires. That's phenomenal.

I would think that the Rio trailing links are tuned differently than the festiva sway bar because of the cars weight. The Rio is quite a bit heavier than the Festiva.
The major benefit of this modification would be to eliminate the sway bar completely. The sway bar hinders traction by taking weight off the inside wheel in corners and also reducing the suspensions ability to independently follow the road surface (I.E. when hammering bumper curbing on a racetrack). Getting rid of the front sway bar would allow an even finer degree of suspension tuning and would allow even more aggressive cornering techniques. I'm all for that!

[robotrob]

Ahhhh, now I understand... Makes sense looking at it. My whole idea behind this was to tighten up the handling and remove "compliance" but maybe some is ok lol

I wonder if we could chop the arms off the factory Festiva swaybar and thread the ends to take a heim joint, or just weld them on, but I'm thinking threaded would make it adjustable, then we retain the factory engineered flex?

These would be perfect I think?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/371075183376

Then just bolt the suckers to the brackets that used to hold the swaybar

Ok so looks like not much of the rio suspension is needed at all lol

[Advancedynamix]

Ahhhh, now I understand... Makes sense looking at it. My whole idea behind this was to tighten up the handling and remove "compliance" but maybe some is ok lol

I wonder if we could chop the arms off the factory Festiva swaybar and thread the ends to take a heim joint, or just weld them on, but I'm thinking threaded would make it adjustable, then we retain the factory engineered flex?

These would be perfect I think?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/371075183376

Then just bolt the suckers to the brackets that used to hold the swaybar

Ok so looks like not much of the rio suspension is needed at all lol

Why would you want to remove chassis compliance?

Welding the sway bar is not a good plan. Sway bars are made from high silicon steel (spring steel). This type of steel gets brittle when welded.
Drilling and threading the sway bar may also make it prone to fatigue. Cutting threads on the o.d. may work well, but that's not an easy task.

I do think that a stiffer rate would help cars with bigger engines that are moved forward in the chassis. Moving the engine forward improves traction dramatically by increasing the weight on the front tires. This may make the rio bars a better choice.
I was planning on bending some bars from 4140 steel and having them heat treated. I'd make them a similar diameter to the stock sway bar, but they would be hollow. I would pair them with custom control arms that were set up similar to the porsche 997 front control arms (rubber bushing that is pressed in vertically rather than horizontal.) I would use a similar bushing setup to the rio on the front. I like to rubber mount components whenever possible. This helps dampen shock loads, reduce harmonics and increases part life dramatically.

[robotrob]

Why would you want to remove chassis compliance.

Not remove, just reduce the amount the bushings deform when subjected to an applied force

[sketchman]

Huh. And ya know what? Why can't you just make trailing links from the sway bar?

Cut it off up front on both sides before the bend into the bushing and weld on some tubing and some threaded inserts to stick a rod end on it. Then it would bolt up right where it always has.

[FestYboy]

Just had a thought: the festy sway bar is solid... So what's stopping us from lopping it in half, milling a groove into each end and coupling them back together to maintain position but allow the articulation we're looking for?

Thoughts Charlie?

[sketchman]

Never mind. Re-read it. lol