NON-Coilover Front Strut options?

[wwwdotgov]

What are my options for a "front strut" that will work well with a 2" drop lowered spring? I kinda want to avoid coilovers.

I do really want to use the Kia Rio upper strut mount bearings for a lighter steering feel. I also want bigger front brakes.

I already have the complete 01 Kia hub/strut/brake assemblies to play with. Unfortunately, after you cut 2.5 coils out of the springs, you now are only sitting back at about stock height. So it seems that the length of the Kia Rio struts kinda limits a Festiva to stock height.

Is there a shorter strut, with the right sized shaft that lets me use Rio strut bearings, and allows me to bolt up the Kia Hubs (maybe after mods to the lower strut holes) AND... is short enough that it likes the lowered springs too?
Or do I throw in the towel and settle for building coilovers?.?. Trying to keep cost down.

[TominMO]

I have Rio uppers and struts with Festy springs, cut one coil. They are definitely lower than stock. So I'm not getting why you say cutting 2.5 coils only gets you down to about stock Festy height.

[wwwdotgov]

I have Rio uppers and struts with Festy springs, cut one coil. They are definitely lower than stock. So I'm not getting why you say cutting 2.5 coils only gets you down to about stock Festy height.

This is the thread that mentioned/showed "Kia" springs cut 2.5 coils to achieve almost stock ride height. Maybe slightly lower.

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/showthread.php?41641-Official-Kia-Rio-Front-Strut-Assembly-Brake-Install

But I guess with "Festiva" springs, you got somewhat lower with one coil.

Will the longer Kia strut shaft bottom out, cause any problems, or significantly lower the strut lifespan if I want to be lowered 2" from a stock Festiva ride height using (oem or KYB) Kia Struts?

[ryanprins13]

Im not sure, if you werent big on the shaft being the perfect size the festiva front strut would work. But you have to get a bushing for the rio strut mount the way i understand it.

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[Advancedynamix]

The Festiva struts are valved like a mechanical pencil. Bounce city.

[ryanprins13]

The Festiva struts are valved like a mechanical pencil. Bounce city.

Lol, ok. Didnt you cut some struts and weld them back togeather shorter? Would that work here?

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[Advancedynamix]

That was the rear, and it worked pretty well. The rear KYB shocks are decent, except they are 3“ too long and that's where all the body roll comes from. Lowering the car on stock rear shocks makes it handle worse. That's why I cut mine. A couple years after that I found out that mk1 vw rear shocks fit, are valved a little stiffer and are 3" shorter. It was a win win win. They are also cheap.

[TominMO]

This is the thread that mentioned/showed "Kia" springs cut 2.5 coils to achieve almost stock ride height. Maybe slightly lower.

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/showthread.php?41641-Official-Kia-Rio-Front-Strut-Assembly-Brake-Install

But I guess with "Festiva" springs, you got somewhat lower with one coil.

Will the longer Kia strut shaft bottom out, cause any problems, or significantly lower the strut lifespan if I want to be lowered 2" from a stock Festiva ride height using (oem or KYB) Kia Struts?

Oh right, I missed that you were talking about with Rio springs, which are definitely stiffer. I tried that at first and didn't like them, just too stiff; IIRC 170#.

But with Festy front springs cut whatever amount you want, it works. It is not ideal though; ride feels kinda harsh in front. I would like 120 - 140# front springs that are a bit shorter than stock. But you pretty much have to go to coilovers to find them.

Just be sure you don't cut so much that your strut shaft bottoms out; or use a fair amount of bump stops.

[ryanprins13]

There ya go. Cut a chunk out of the rio struts you have, thread them and weld em back togeather. Maybe buy another pair as backup. Then cut festiva springs. If thats too stiff you could be a pioneer and try festiva or aspire rear springs in the front. They may sag enough without cutting and the stiff struts would keep it from being too bouncy.
Or you could go rat rod style and cut clearance holes in your hood, cut your strut mount areas off the frame of the car and weld them back on a few inches higher and just use the rio stuff you have. All yould need then is a plasma cutter, a welder and some good steel.

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[TominMO]

There ya go. Cut a chunk out of the rio struts you have, thread them and weld em back togeather. Maybe buy another pair as backup. Then cut festiva springs. If thats too stiff you could be a pioneer and try festiva or aspire rear springs in the front. They may sag enough without cutting and the stiff struts would keep it from being too bouncy.
Or you could go rat rod style and cut clearance holes in your hood, cut your strut mount areas off the frame of the car and weld them back on a few inches higher and just use the rio stuff you have. All you'd need then is a plasma cutter, a welder and some good steel.

Festy/Aspire rear springs are longer than the front ones and are also a lighter rate, so that's not a good idea, even if they are cut. According to Charlie, the hot setup is somewhat more spring rate (140#?), not less, for smoothness. Depends on the application of course; I think I would be happy with 120 - 130#. I don't think the better KYB Rio damping would compensate much for a very light spring rate.

The other ideas would be a lot more trouble than just buying coilover parts, which he does not want to do. Looks like he is looking for a cheap/simple solution, which is what I did by cutting one coil from my front Festiva springs.

My recommendation is to cut 1.5 coils from the Festy springs and use a couple of bump stops, so that maybe 1/2 of the shaft is showing, to increase the "spring rate" via the bump stops. Hopefully Charlie will chime in and refine (or totally blow away :-) ) my idea. Mine are only cut 1.0 coils, but sit slightly higher than the rear, which is lowered 2" with coilovers; so I will be cutting mine another 1/2 coil.

BTW congrats to ryan on 1,000 posts!

[wwwdotgov]

I have a selection of springs to play with but haven't decided on which to go with.
I have:
1. Rio Front Springs
2. Aspire Rear Springs
3. Festiva Front & Backs Springs
4. MK1 Rabbit Rear Lowering Springs (unknown spring rate)

Those are the MK1 Rear Springs in picture sitting next to the Rio front suspension:


The rear strut set-up is easier to figure and I will order shorter MK1 KYB Struts with the blue MK1 springs -or- maybe cut festiva fronts?

The front set-up I go with is still up in the air?????

Also.... I'm using a Aspire Front Sway Bar, so maybe using the stiffer sway bar influences what spring and struts combo would work better.
I'm using the Aspire bar in hopes of controlling wheel hop and torque steer since this being built for 1/4 mile, straight line racing. But, it's still a street car and I'm not looking for a harsh, hard ride either.

TominMO...I may just go with cut Festiva springs in front like you did and call it a day.

[Advancedynamix]

If this is a track car, you want the adjustable coilovers for sure. Don't even mess with stock or Rio struts. You need more rebound dampening than what these struts can provide. The VW coilovers have much much better dampening rates and will allow you to hook up. Also. The Rio bar is bad for traction, and it will hinder you from moving the drive train forward, which will ultimately give you the best results.
The VW mk1 rear shocks have stiffer compression valving than stock, so that will also aid in controlling weight transfer. Controlling weight transfer with valving is much more effective than fighting it with spring rate and sway bars.

Tuning the suspension this way will give you a more comfortable than stock ride on the street, and it'll increase the cars ability to put power down DRASTICALLY. The difference is night and day.

[ryanprins13]

Festy/Aspire rear springs are longer than the front ones and are also a lighter rate, so that's not a good idea, even if they are cut. According to Charlie, the hot setup is somewhat more spring rate (140#?), not less, for smoothness. Depends on the application of course; I think I would be happy with 120 - 130#. I don't think the better KYB Rio damping would compensate much for a very light spring rate.

The other ideas would be a lot more trouble than just buying coilover parts, which he does not want to do. Looks like he is looking for a cheap/simple solution, which is what I did by cutting one coil from my front Festiva springs.

My recommendation is to cut 1.5 coils from the Festy springs and use a couple of bump stops, so that maybe 1/2 of the shaft is showing, to increase the "spring rate" via the bump stops. Hopefully Charlie will chime in and refine (or totally blow away :-) ) my idea. Mine are only cut 1.0 coils, but sit slightly higher than the rear, which is lowered 2" with coilovers; so I will be cutting mine another 1/2 coil.

BTW congrats to ryan on 1,000 posts!

Thanks! Thats a lot of posts... anyway, what made you decide to go with rio struts and festiva front springs? How do you like it and what do you think of it?



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[TominMO]

Thanks! Thats a lot of posts... anyway, what made you decide to go with rio struts and festiva front springs? How do you like it and what do you think of it?

The Rio struts have more damping, and the ball-bearing top for very light steering. Takes some getting used to after driving my Aspire regularly, which has Festy KYBs. and the flat bearing. When the Aspire's front struts wear out, I'm going Rio there too.

The Festiva front springs are in there only because I haven't gotten around to doing a front coilover setup yet, using the Rio KYBs. They're OK, but at 105# I would prefer to go up to 120 or 130. B6 SOHC motor, so it's not any heavier in the front. In fact it's lighter, since I'm using a powersports battery. Changing my oil to 0W20 tmw, for the winter. At 20 degrees F or below that little battery has trouble turning over such cold oil, if it's 5W30 or 10W30.

[ryanprins13]

The Rio struts have more damping, and the ball-bearing top for very light steering. Takes some getting used to after driving my Aspire regularly, which has Festy KYBs. and the flat bearing. When the Aspire's front struts wear out, I'm going Rio there too.

The Festiva front springs are in there only because I haven't gotten around to doing a front coilover setup yet, using the Rio KYBs. They're OK, but at 105# I would prefer to go up to 120 or 130. B6 SOHC motor, so it's not any heavier in the front. In fact it's lighter, since I'm using a powersports battery. Changing my oil to 0W20 tmw, for the winter. At 20 degrees F or below that little battery has trouble turning over such cold oil, if it's 5W30 or 10W30.

Ok, i may do something like that. Rio struts with uncut festiva springs should be nice right? do the aspire front springs not fit on the rio struts?
Ok. When its cold 0w20 is about the same as 0w30, but much thinner than 5 or 10w30. I think 0w20 is fine for winter if your not racing it around, 0w30 better if you are. The 20 is a little low on the HTHS viscosity for high loads. I used 5w20 in mine last winter with no pressure issues or other problems.



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