festiva rear beam independent suspension

[TominMO]

So, what it comes down to is the price we pay for an image. I mean, sure my Porsche is a finely balanced work of art that is at peace on the edge of traction, but that edge is slower than a sub compact econobox with some ebay suspension and a motor swap. Hmmm. Don't tell the marketing department at Ford that they were selling exotic supercar eating chassis for pennies on the dollar.

:-)

[F3BZ]

in an interview upon its introduction to the european market Mazda executives actually did hint that they'd be offering a 121 with the 1.6L from the 323 but for whatever reasons that never came about.

it would've been a sinkhole for ford to invest any engineering, certification, or marketing of a hot hatch festiva, especially as they were just the middle-man between mazdas design and kias economy of assembly. there would have been too few sales to a small minority of enthusiasts to recoup money on an already low profit unit adopted into their product line mainly to offset the dismal milage ratings of F-150s and Crown Vics. Honda was already well established in the consumers mind as small car specialists with sporty handling and smooth reliable power plants. it would have been an uphill battle just to get a potential customer to compare a honda to the new 88 festiva let alone actually buy the little ford made in south korea.

[Advancedynamix]

A few magazine articles about the Festiva boasting faster lap times than a Corvette and some TV commercials that show a go cart for the street would have gone a long way. In 1988 the Corvette was a turd, and could have been easily beaten around a road coarse by a car that Ford/Mazda had all the parts on the shelf to put together. The tooling costs would have been very low. Instead, we get SHO Taurus, Escort GT and SVT Lightning. None of those vehicles come anywhere close to the performance of a well tuned b6d Festiva on a race track. Nobody seems to want to believe that an econobox can actually out perform a sports car or muscle car or exotic car in this country, but it's common knowledge in other countries where marketing isn't as effective as actual performance.

[ryanprins13]

in an interview upon its introduction to the european market Mazda executives actually did hint that they'd be offering a 121 with the 1.6L from the 323 but for whatever reasons that never came about.

it would've been a sinkhole for ford to invest any engineering, certification, or marketing of a hot hatch festiva, especially as they were just the middle-man between mazdas design and kias economy of assembly. there would have been too few sales to a small minority of enthusiasts to recoup money on an already low profit unit adopted into their product line mainly to offset the dismal milage ratings of F-150s and Crown Vics. Honda was already well established in the consumers mind as small car specialists with sporty handling and smooth reliable power plants. it would have been an uphill battle just to get a potential customer to compare a honda to the new 88 festiva let alone actually buy the little ford made in south korea.

Interesting.

I dont think it would have taken much to match the 'hot hatches' of that day, but i agree that there were too many bosses to make anything effective happen.
I also didnt think that honda was thought of that well in small cars before 88. What did they make before the civic?

But the there was probably a directive to build a small economy car that could be used worldwide and the festiva was designed to meet that with no thought to broadening it.
Oh well, it is what it is. Many other automotive mistakes have been made as well.



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[Doug Brown]

[QUOTE=ryanprins13;741577]Interesting.

I also didnt think that honda was thought of that well in small cars before 88. What did they make before the civic?


Honda made the Z600 Coupe, a micro mini that makes a Festiva look like a Mac Truck in comparison. I owned two of them and they were incredible - tons of performance from a 600cc 2cylinder engine, great handling, 52-mpg regular grade gasoline and capable of 100-mph if you didn't mind wandering over 4-lanes of the freeway while doing it!

I always hoped that Honda would put the 750 cc 4-carb 4-cylinder bike engine in it, but it's replacement was the Civic...

[Raniken]

so im confused what is the verdict here

[Dragonhealer]

That the rear suspension of the Festiva is in fact a fully independent suspension.

I find it interesting that the Mazda2, a 6th generation 121, got a lot heavier, almost Miata weight, went to a front subframe with wishbone lower control arms and yet retains the same rear suspension as the first generation car, the only difference moving the springs inboard 4 inches to allow for larger wheels/tyres.

[chrisofna]

That the rear suspension of the Festiva is in fact a fully independent suspension.

I find it interesting that the Mazda2, a 6th generation 121, got a lot heavier, almost Miata weight, went to a front subframe with wishbone lower control arms and yet retains the same rear suspension as the first generation car, the only difference moving the springs inboard 4 inches to allow for larger wheels/tyres.

The Fiesta ST uses the same suspension as the Mazda2 and is absolutely destroying on the autocross tracks. Independent or not, you can't argue with results.

[ryanprins13]

New video! (At bottom of post) I had the opportunity to check out an aspire rear beam with the sway bar still intact. I previously tested a festiva rear beam to show how it is in fact independent rear suspension, thats what this older thread is about.
I did not have a scale or measureing tools with me working on the aspire beam but it is most definatly NOT independant.
If you compare it to my video of the festiva suspension here:

https://youtu.be/A7bc_Br4nhg

The camera is closer to the car in this video, but i exerted far far more effort to try and move this hub than i did on the festiva. Both cars had the spring still attached on the opposite side but with the wheel off the ground.
So as you can see the festiva beam is far superior. This aspire beam acts like a typical independant rear suspension with a sway bar would.

I hope to one day test this beam and an aspire one with the sway bar drilled out using the same scale and ruler i did with the festiva beam. This was just what i had opportunity to quickly do.

https://youtu.be/9_l9SsyZVeA

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[ryanprins13]

Will samet (w4rkry on here) posted this on facebook whick i thoughtbwas relevant to this topic and i would copy and paste it here.

Just in case anyone was curious, I went out and measured Rear Beam thicknesses today. This is only measured at the Middle Bar of the H.

Festiva: 3.72 mm
Aspire: 4.11 mm

So, even if you take out the extra brace bar from an Aspire beam, it is still Thicker, and likely heavier.

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[ricko1966]

So, what it comes down to is the price we pay for an image. I mean, sure my Porsche is a finely balanced work of art that is at peace on the edge of traction, but that edge is slower than a sub compact econobox with some ebay suspension and a motor swap. Hmmm. Don't tell the marketing department at Ford that they were selling exotic supercar eating chassis for pennies on the dollar.

:-)

That is funny. I like it. In reality I think a lot of the porsche owners are also paying for a car that performs pretty good without having to mess with anything. I've owned about 10 porsches 911's 912's and 914's bought everyone of them cheap needing an engine rebuild or a transmission rebuild, the owners just didn't have the knowledge or desire to fix them let alone modify them,they replace them they don't repair them. Now don't take me wrong but as purchased,status symbols aside I'd prefer to drive a Porsche than my festy, Now I am laughing, because I am driving my festy daily while two porsches sit waiting on me to finish them.The daily driver and real life take priority.

[w4rkry]

Will samet (w4rkry on here) posted this on facebook whick i thoughtbwas relevant to this topic and i would copy and paste it here.

Just in case anyone was curious, I went out and measured Rear Beam thicknesses today. This is only measured at the Middle Bar of the H.

Festiva: 3.72 mm
Aspire: 4.11 mm

So, even if you take out the extra brace bar from an Aspire beam, it is still Thicker, and likely heavier.

And next time I have the wheels off, I will check and see if that thickness difference is carried all the way around.

[RobotKarate]

I have an Aspire rear beam on my garage floor right now and can measure it if needed. The question is, should I Aspire the Festiva or not, or just swap over the hubs and brakes?

[w4rkry]

I have an Aspire rear beam on my garage floor right now and can measure it if needed. The question is, should I Aspire the Festiva or not, or just swap over the hubs and brakes?

You should use the Festiva beam with the Aspire brakes. The extra flex and lightness of the Festiva beam is very beneficial to handling.

[ricko1966]

Why wouldn't you go festy beam and fab rear discs? Are some of you already doing that? I really think a rear disc swap could be done with similiar time and cost involved with either bolt pattern.