1.3 b3 rebuild

[jason_]

Well, I thought this rebuild was going good....

Last b3 I milled 0.038, beautiful results. Bore and pistons were nice, so I just honed and reringed. Easy. Brought up to 10:1 or so I'm guessing. Very noticeable afterwards.

Soooo, this current project, decided to push the envelope further.... Milled 0.043, ported and polished, and while at it, be a good builder and bore the block with matching goodies.... She ended up needed 0.02, no biggie.

Wrong, new oversized pistons F'ed me to the wenis.....

Almost 0.1" shorter from wrist pin, less dome, and Reliefs are cut deeper/wider... 5cc to 7.7......Even with some rough math, ill be in the low 7s....wtf?!? Imagine a stock head that isn't shaved.... Shop already hung new aluminum on the rods, so I own them....

Ideas? I'm thinking more shaving and lots of playdoe.......

And NO, no boosting manifold, I'm a mad scientist in the garage, but my wallet is my limiting factor.

[FestYboy]

0.100" shorter compression hight!!!!??? WTH? send them back now! that's insane!

[jason_]

Re: 1.3 b3 rebuild

Man, I would if I could, I tried to argue it, since they hung them it means I'm keeping them...

Thursday I'm buying some playdoe, I got light springs on a couple valves, crank is in with a set of old rod bearings... Beer and lots of head on/off, and milling....

The reliefs are cut quite a bit deeper, so I think I can get quite wild and at least make 10:1, I figured every 0.02" shave do another cc measurement and redo my math.

:/ kinda stuck, but I got a fuzz over $600 with the rebuild kit, dip&bore, and pistons. It's doable, just gonna take time. No one has chimed in, so it's still early from posting, or I'm in uncharted territory

[FestYboy]

i'd say you got the wrong pistons and that's not your fault, it's theirs. they should take them back because the only way you'd know they are wrong is if you install them... a factory piston is usually .020" or less from "0" deck. you have to pull those pistons off, the aboult of machining needed to get the deck back where it belongs will send everything out of wack to the point that you won't be able to use factory pieces anymore. and THAT will be expensive.

try this:http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-FESTIVA...sories&vxp=mtr

[blkfordsedan]

I agree, something isn't right. I have run into this before on cheap aftermarket pistons. Where did you get the pistons? I bought new el-cheapo pistons for my B6 from Rock Auto and measured and cc'd them before install. They were an exact match to the factory ones. If you can't return them, your most economical alternative is to buy another set of new pistons. The other possible (but more expensive) suggestion involves offset grinding (stroking) a crank. I would have to look at the rod lengths and journal diameters of B3 and B6 rods.

[FestYboy]

b3 and b6 journal size is the same and AFAIK, the turbo B6 rods are shorter. you may be able to use miata rods, but i'm not sure the lenth is anywhere near what you need.

[jason_]

Re: 1.3 b3 rebuild



Seal power, federal.....

I'll post #s later tonight. Last rebuild I kept the box of stock, and compared with the box of oversize, and I about sheet my pants. And I didn't look at anything, I just grabbed the block and box of goodies, all pre hung too...

[jason_]

Re: 1.3 b3 rebuild

546pstd
5cc
1.85" head

546p.50mm
7.7cc
1.76" head

They'll punch them off and return money, but it's all he can get ahold of. That or hog 0.090" off the head to bring it back down to pistons, and decrease chamber size to compensate for 2.7cc extra dish...

[blkfordsedan]

b3 and b6 journal size is the same and AFAIK, the turbo B6 rods are shorter. you may be able to use miata rods, but i'm not sure the lenth is anywhere near what you need.

The main journals are the same. I'll look in my bearing shop manuals for the journal diameters, but I'm pretty sure I looked into it before and the B3 and B6 have different rod journal diameters. I believe the B6 has larger journals on the rods, but I'm not sure. I know Zanzer told me once that he tried to mix B3 and B6 rods and the crank journals were different. I'm speculating the B3 has longer rods as well, since stroke and block height are the same but the B3 pistons have a lower compression height. Regardless, the cheapest thing is to buy new pistons.

[blkfordsedan]

Seal power, federal.....

I'll post #s later tonight. Last rebuild I kept the box of stock, and compared with the box of oversize, and I about sheet my pants. And I didn't look at anything, I just grabbed the block and box of goodies, all pre hung too...

You might try Rock Auto. I was very pleased with the quality of the DNJ pistons I bought. Price can't be beat either.

[Bert]

[QUOTE=jason_;556749]Well, I thought this rebuild was going good....

Last b3 I milled 0.038, beautiful results. Bore and pistons were nice, so I just honed and reringed. Easy. Brought up to 10:1 or so I'm guessing. Very noticeable afterwards.

Soooo, this current project, decided to push the envelope further.... Milled 0.043, ported and polished, and while at it, be a good builder and bore the block with matching goodies.... She ended up needed 0.02, no biggie.

I have some idea of what you're talking about (I have seriously 'hopped-up' an engine before) but any and all B3s are 'toys' when if looking to expend time, effort and money for the sake of Festy performance. Un-modified B6s have been there already via inexpensive displacement and get you a cheap and easy 20 horse without any expense. And a bare-bones JY-scavenged housewife's version of a B8 will safely generate 15-20 more hp than all the tea in China's-worth of B3 mods you are talking about. And a motor like that will run cool all day and safely stay together for 1/4 million miles more than whatever you propose to build out of a B3.
Didn't want to throw water on your fire, but I guess I just did.
Find one and then 'hang a number' on a BP (or an already wild B6T) with the same coinage and dedication you've already shown and then see what you get: that'll be a guided missile for sure.

[blkfordsedan]

The rod journal diameter of a B3 is 1.572" and the B6 is 1.769". In theory, you could probably do some creative machine work and get back to zero deck. I doubt it would be worth the extra effort. Fun to think about if nothing else. I wonder if the FM pistons for a B6 have a lower comp height and deeper dish than factory.

[blkfordsedan]

546pstd
5cc
1.85" head

546p.50mm
7.7cc
1.76" head

They'll punch them off and return money, but it's all he can get ahold of. That or hog 0.090" off the head to bring it back down to pistons, and decrease chamber size to compensate for 2.7cc extra dish...

My old Sealed Power catalog lists 546P as a 1.107" CD and a .060" x 2.380" recess dish. That's a fair amount different than what you got. I could see making the valve reliefs bigger on oversize pistons to keep compression at the factory level, but something's odd with the CD. I can't comment on the B3, but my B6 pistons came within .003" from zero deck.

[jason_]

Re: 1.3 b3 rebuild

[QUOTE=Bert;556918]

Well, I thought this rebuild was going good....

Last b3 I milled 0.038, beautiful results. Bore and pistons were nice, so I just honed and reringed. Easy. Brought up to 10:1 or so I'm guessing. Very noticeable afterwards.

Soooo, this current project, decided to push the envelope further.... Milled 0.043, ported and polished, and while at it, be a good builder and bore the block with matching goodies.... She ended up needed 0.02, no biggie.

I have some idea of what you're talking about (I have seriously 'hopped-up' an engine before) but any and all B3s are 'toys' when if looking to expend time, effort and money for the sake of Festy performance. Un-modified B6s have been there already via inexpensive displacement and get you a cheap and easy 20 horse without any expense. And a bare-bones JY-scavenged housewife's version of a B8 will safely generate 15-20 more hp than all the tea in China's-worth of B3 mods you are talking about. And a motor like that will run cool all day and safely stay together for 1/4 million miles more than whatever you propose to build out of a B3.
Didn't want to throw water on your fire, but I guess I just did.
Find one and then 'hang a number' on a BP (or an already wild B6T) with the same coinage and dedication you've already shown and then see what you get: that'll be a guided missile for sure.

I just wanted to squeeze 10 or 10.5, the last build I just stuffed in new rings and called it a day.

My daily driver is finally wearing out, so I figured to go good and bore, but these oversized pistons are ruining the program... I didn't want anything fancy. Just bump the CR and be done with it. But now I got a block bored and as far as I can tell I'm stuck with them.

[FestYboy]

don't be stuck with them... get different ones, DO NOT mess with the block like that. .090" is unacceptable...