Hho/hfe

[CharlieZ]

... you will see the back of a hydrogen car. but the hydrogen is compressed in a tank. not made on demand. .

Aren't current hydrogen cars all utilizing a fuel cell to generate electricity from the hydrogen rather than an IC engine?

[yblock]

UPDATE.
no improvement over last week. so I have changed the cell to -NNN+NNN-. this was a odd. the water that was pulling 18 amps now only 0.8amps. less than 1 amp. added more baking soda at 1/16 of a teaspoon at a time until i got to 4 amps. and am producing as many bubbles as i was at 18 amps with the previous design. so with less load on the alternator I"LL give this a try. some suggest sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide would either of these release the hydrogen faster. maybe a retired chemist could explain.also if any one wonders your ac clutch pulls 3.7 amps.

[getnpsi]

The festiva is getting hydrogen gas to supplement the fuel, not replacing the IC engine itself.

I notice in other reads that some of those kits want you to pull 20+ amps. With such a large container are you producing the same gas as a 32oz with such a small draw?

Is this just for in town efficiancy, or is there a way to feed it more linear when the demand for fuel is higher and the vacuum is low?

[yblock]

by counting the bubbles with the output hose submerged in water there's 4-8 more per minute than at 18 amps. with the previous plat arrangement. as far as what kit's say, keep reading an you'll find they say the positive plates produce oxygen an the negative an neutral plates produce the hydrogen. i know one thing for sure the the + plate's stay clean as new an the rest get a brown film on them. but it easly wipes off.

[Pu241]

Yblock, not to make things more confusing, but have you tried just running the hydrogen or just the oxygen from the electrolyzer into the intake?
Of course, you would need to vent the other, none used gas, well away from the engine.
Just thinking you are feeding both hydrogen and oxygen in, just wondering if the effect is dependent on both or just one of the gases?

[yblock]

I don't know how to separate the two. prior to starting this thread I did tee into the pcv line and let it pull a vaccum on the bubbler an later tried going into the air intake. didn't see a difference so I left it on the intake tube.

[CharlieZ]

Patent title: PROCESS AND DEVICE FOR SEPARATING HYDROGEN FROM GAS FLOWS HAVING AN OXYGEN CONSTITUENT

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080216652

A Chemical Research group has discovered a new way to extract Hydrogen from water. It is very different from actual methods, and is based on the interaction of a Molybdenum (Mo) compound.

http://www.keelynet.com/energy/valhyd.htm

[Pu241]

CharlieZ, that an industrial process.
Effective on the large scale within certain gas compositions.
In a small electrolytic cell like yblock has, it is just not possible to use pressure swing absorption on this scale.
However, if he had two chambers; one with the positive plates in it, the other with the negative plates connected by a common electrolyte solution, the separation would be possible.
But would require another unit and some re-wiring.
Might be worth doing later after he has exhausted testing with the single unit.
Can't help but think it might be the pure oxygen being fed into the engine that is helping.
But at the same time there is so little of either hydrogen or oxygen that I find it hard to believe.
That's why I'd like to see a separation of the hydrogen and oxygen and perhaps gain a better understanding of what is happening.

[CharlieZ]

Pu241
To what do you think the higher gas production, with a significantly less current flow, might be attributable in yblock's post above? Also, what does this mean? "so I have changed the cell to -NNN+NNN-."
I was never able to pull up the original photo of Y's hydrolyzer.
Thanks

[Pu241]

CharlieZ
I really couldn't tell you!
Maybe, increased conductivity due to more sodium bicardonate(Baking soda) in solution.
Icedawg might better beable to answer that!
As for the "-NNN+NNN-" I think he changed the plate arrangement.
Typically, you will alternate + and - plates so the charge carriers in solution do not have very far to go to complete the reaction on the plate surface.
But once again, I'm not an electro chemist.
I think as Icedawg suggests, a battery chemist might better to answer this.

Now that I think of it, I wonder if I can get a lab demo bottle of either hydrogen or oxygen and feed it in at the same rate yblock is.
Yblock do you have volume rates on how much gas you are feeding into the engine.
Bubbles are hard to judge as a measurement of volume.
Wondering also how you measure the amps your system is pulling and do you think it is pulling the same amperage at speed when the available amperage is higher and the voltage is probably at 14.5 to 14.7 or so, verses 13.5 or so at idle

[yblock]

I use an amp guage mounted in the car. I use a digital clamp meter when at home testing. the added voltage does increase the amp's about 1-1.5. the plate arrangement NNN is for neutrals. they are there but not connected to + or -. volume rate's. i would like to know to. all I can do is put a bottle of water inverted in a bucket of water an put the output hose in the bottom of the bottle which will push the water out. count the time an come up with a liter per minute amount.

[Pu241]

Hey, that's good enough for me!
A liter a minute of 2 parts Hydrogen and 1 part Oxygen.
Gives me a place to start!

[yblock]

ok I"ll do that test tomorrow an let you know the result's.

[CharlieZ]

yblock,
I'm trying to track down a low volume gas flow meter. If I'm successful, and you're interested, it's yours. There are several for sale on the "bay' but hopefully I can do better than ten bucks. A friend of a friend refurbishes O2 concentrators for the medical field. They use a simple "ball" type flow gauge that might be useful in taking some relative flow data. This thread is one of the most interesting. Glad it's running here. I don't read too many other forums.

[Pu241]

CharlieZ,
I appreciate your interest in this!
Willing to help defray your costs for better data.
Personnally, I should have thought of the ball flowmeter myself.
But, that's why it's better to have a few people working on this!