Extensive 323/Festiva Hybridization.

[Jimmy812]

So I have a 323GT that I would love to do something with some day, but it needs some rust repair, and the power window regulators are totally shot (which would be hard part to source replacements for as not many 323GTs exist and not many non-GT's came with power windows) and it needs it's whole suspension rebuilt, plus it's a little banged up in the front.

So as much as I hate to do it, I've decided to make it a parts car for my Festiva project.

But last night I was thinking about what I like about the 323 that I would miss.

I like the seats.

I like the dashboard - not just the gauge cluster, the whole dashboard.

I like the B6T.

I love the crank open sunroof.

I like that it's pretty rare - you don't see them very often, unless you own one.


So I played around with the tape measure today and I measured the width of the dashboard. It's appears to be about 1/2" wider on the 323, but there are lips that fill the gap between the dash and the door that could be cut down 1/4" on each side to fit the Festiva if need be. The width of the actual dashboard is very close, maybe actually wider on the Festiva.













The contour might be different at the base of the windshield, but it's close and making a filler piece might not be hard.

The general shape and countours of the 323 dash and Festiva dash are very similar. The 323 has a nice center console that might fit between the seats in a Festiva.

I did a complete dash swap on one of my Datsuns and I wasn't super easy, but it also wasn't that hard.


If I used the entire dash, then I could use all of the AC parts from the 323, the underhood parts would just have to be squeezed into a tighter space at the front of the car.


If I used the whole dash, all the AC parts, the 323 alternator, started, and maybe even the steering column (tilt baby!) I could use the majority of the 323 wiring harness. I might just have to change a few connectors here and there for Festiva things - like maybe at the tailights or turnsignals etc - since those would have to match the Festiva.

I'd have to do away with the Festiva's motorized belts - finding the seat belt pieces from an '88-'89 can't be that hard.



And here's where the idea jumps the shark.



What about that crank open sunroof?





I'd probably have to cut the opening out of the 323 and cut a similar hole on the Festiva and mate the two together, but it seems to me that mounting the whole crank and slider assembly under the roof of the Festiva could be that hard. Surely I'll have to fabricate some brackets, probably remove the brace above the headliner in the Festiva, but presumably the 323 has a similar brace that might be adaptable.

The contour of the two roofs might not be exactly the same, but the contour of the 323's sliding panel doesn't perfectly match the 323's own roof anyway.

And even if I have to cut all of the panel of the Festiva's roof between the black rubber strips and cut a similar section out of the 323's roof, it won't be that hard.









I'll have to make a custom headliner, or make a hybrid of the 323 and a Festiva headliner. Shouldn't be that hard - or expensive if I have to pay an interior shop to do it. A friend of mine had an entire suede headliner put in his Sentra when he installed an aftermarket sliding sunroof and it wasn't that expensive.





The Festiva I would doing this with is a completely gutted shell anyways, so it's not like I'm going to destroy a perfectly good Festiva if things don't work out.

It was in a flood. It's totally rust free and fairly straight, but it needs new carpet, seats, a new headliner (it didn't get wet, but is has a permanent stink), I need to pull the dash out to clean up the firewall. I expect it would have electrical gremlins related to being submerged anyway, so swapping the wiring harness might be necessity anyway.


So if you've read this far - am I crazy? Is there something I'm not thinking about that will throw a wrench into my plans?

Has anybody every tried a 323 dash swap?

How about installing a sliding sunroof?

Has anybody ever tried to use a complete harness out of a donor 323/Capri/EGT as part of their engine swap?

Anybody put a different steering column in their Festiva?


I'm going to finish the BP swap in my green Festiva before I start on this project, so don't expect update pics in the next few weeks, and I expect this will be a winter-long project, but it's something I really want to do and I think I have the necessary skills.


OR - based on the pics below, should I just fix up the 323GT?













So yeah, thanks for reading - I know it's wordy, just kind of a stream of consciousness of my on-going though process.

Any thoughts, comments, etc. would be appreciated.

[MONSOON]

I would think the easiest way to put that sunroof in would be cut it out. Then cut out an opening on the Festiva slightly larger, then weld in place. Would definately take some work to get it right. The dash would definately be a cool idea if it can be made to fit and look like it shouldve been there to begin with.
I definately want to see how this progresses.

[Maxtiva]

I'd say go for it !!!

[Jimmy812]

I think you are right Monsoon. I think the way to do it would be cutting a hole in the Festy roof in general area I want the sunroof to be, a bit oversized, then mount the sunroof mechanism, then cut the area around the hole in the 323 roof oversized again, then trim them both until the plug fits in the hole and lines up with the sunroof panel. Then a lot of very slow welding and some body solder, some sanding and paint.

Trying to cut and bend the Festiva roof to match the sunroof hole would be hard, and probably not seal well.

Most sunroof I've seen come out as a single assembly, I'm sure the 323 is no different. It will probably dictate where it has to be and will be up to me the figure out how to make it stay there.

It's definitely going to be a project. I'll probably do the sunroof as one of the first things, so that I don't get the engine swap done, and all the wiring, and then ruin the car trying to make the sunroof work.



I also want to get rid of the metal boxes that stick out into the cargo area to hole the back seat up. I don't want a back seat in the car, I want to make interior panels to cover the sides, sedan delivery style.

I'll probably also do away with the spare tire well. If I could adapt a spare tire hanger like pickups have, I think that would be cool and make the cargo floor as flat as possible.

It'll definitely be even more rare than a 323GT - even if most people who see it won't recognize the changes that have been made.

This is the Festiva I'll be starting with.

It's the cleanest, most rust free Festiva I have ever run across. Other than the small scrape under the fuel door and the peeling clearcoat, it's shell is in great shape. Not a spot of rust that I've been able to find and I've been playing with this one for a couple of years.









And I love the color.

[91blufestiva]

what are those mirrors off of?

[deathegg]

So if you've read this far - am I crazy?

Yes. Yes you are.

Seriously, it is an interesting idea, and would be cool to see. However, if the rust shown in the photos on the 323 is the only rust (none on the frame rails, etc), then I would say fix the 323! It really doesn't look to be in bad shape at all.
And remember, ( I speak from experience), it's gonna take you at least twice as long as you think it will, and there's no guarantee that everything will fit to your satisfaction, and then you may be kicking yourself. Why cut up a nice 323?

[todd00]

could you find a dash at the junk yard and see if it would fit or use that one as your template, before taking the cars dash all apart? how much effort would it take to finish the 323? and how much could you sell it for finished, if you tire of it? i guess it comes down to how much you like the 323. but it is a neat idea. nice looking festiva, i always liked that color.

has anyone tried swapping the center console from a 323?

[Damkid]

I used to have a 323 and i looked at swapping dashes but never got around to trying it

[batstiva]

Kind of with deathegg on this one. If there isn't any more rust than what we can see in the pics, then I'd say fix the 323. If it's beyond repair, then I'd say go for the swap. The dash is an interesting idea. And if you've got the time and the will, the sunroof would definitely have to be moved over.

[Jimmy812]

I love the 323GT, but I have to deal with the following to make it a usable car:

1. The title is semi-lost.

It might be in my parent's storage shed in New Mexico, it might have gotten thrown away when they moved.

Even if they find it, the seller's signature (the guy I bought it from) is not notarized. He couldn't find the title when I bought the car so he sold it to me for $200. I found the signed title in the trunk when I got the car home.

So even if I find the title, I will need to find a shady notary to get it transferred. I'd never be able to track the seller down again to do it legitimately.



2. There is some rust in the trunk too - maybe underneath the car, it's too low to see under there and I haven't gotten around to jacking it up.



3. The front end was wrecked and not straightened out very well. The headlight that is not in the pictures was held in with baling wire when I bought the car. The hood doesn't close right. It leads me to believe that there may be more out of whack.


4. It needs all the power window hardware replaced. That requires another 323GT as a donor - or maybe a well optioned 323 LX. I've been looking for either of those, or someone parting one out, for two years and I haven't come across it yet.

I could downgrade to crank windows, but I would also have to go to basemodel door panels.

If I'm going to start deleting the options that made the GT cool, I might as well have bought a base model 323 and a Capri XR2 parts car and not had to deal with as much body work or title problems.

And if I were going to start with a base model 323 and a Capri parts car, I could have started with a Festiva and a Capri XR2.

Or a Festiva and a 323GT... which is exactly where I am.



So yeah, I hate the idea of cutting up, but I hate the idea of it rotting away in my yard for years waiting for a title or parts I'll never be able to find even more.

At least part of it can live on in my Festiva. If it's rots away for 5 years waiting for parts, then those cool parts might not even be good for Festiva swapping.

[Jimmy812]

what are those mirrors off of?

They are off of a BG 323 hatchback.



No power, they have those little levers on the inside of the door.

They require enlarging the hole in the door where the mirrors mount and redrilling the screw holes spaced wider apart.

They would also probably look better if I trimmed the front edges of the mounting flanges to match the door window frame.