Ethanol from 10% to 15%

[boydg1]

Ethanol from 10% to 15%
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....Heard today they are going to UP the percentage of ethanol in gasoline from 10% to 15%. This will increase the cost of corn and cause the price of corn products to go UP big time. The critics say that this is going to be BAD NEWS for older cars. I think, I can say to this that since I have burned valves in using just Hi-Test gas in cars that were meant to burn regular gas most of the time. We used to live on a mountain top and it was a mile from the main road to the top of the mountain where we lived. With the Festiva and even the KIA , I noticed that going up the mountain road both cars would PING and I decided to try Hi-test gas. Well, that cured the problem but then several months later, I had a burned valve. Didn't slow me down that much and I decided to ignore it for the time being. But I noticed that we were NOT able to keep up with the pack on the way to work like we used to (110 miles one way). So, eventually I got it fixed and we were back in everyone's good graces in the car pack to work, way back then. The point to all of this is this, if an increase in Octane from Regular to Hi-test will burn the valves, what do you think increasing Ethanol from 10% to 15 % will do? Hi-test gas burns hotter and longer than regular gas and gives more power. Regular gas has a short burn duration
(quicker) and does NOT give the power that hi-test does. The critics already have stated that it will be bad for older cars!! Apparently, the POWERS TO BE, the political people, of this country simply do NOT care. So, what if the not-so-well-off (including retired people) blow up their motors. It helps us get all these OLD cars off the road if they cannot afford to fix them. Never mind whether they can afford it or not. We need to get these people to spend their money like everyone else or go into debt and this keeps us rich so we can dictate more directives to them in the future. I am NOT trying to play politics here just trying to protect my CAR and ENGINE from these prestigious and power hunger people. I felt that I should write this so you all will know what is coming. So when you have burned valves and blown head gaskets and perhaps looser wrist pins not to mention harder wear overall on your engine this is apparently where it's going to come from.
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Thanks
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[big_ty2003]

stop whining and add some 2 stoke oil to your gas...

[Grey Vw]

Corn prices won't increase. Corn is already produced to past surplus status.

[Pu241]

Wow, were do we begin.

OK, best to start at the beginning.

Please explain these two:

"This will increase the cost of corn and cause the price of corn products to go UP big time."

Do you know that the reason they are wanting to increase the ethanol from 10 to 15% is that the capacity of existing blenders (ethanol into gasoline) has been reached. In order to meet the government ordered contamination of our gasoline supply with 36 billion gallons of ethanol they have to increase the percentage they add. No more corn will be planted for the production of ethanol they can't use what they have.

"I decided to try Hi-test gas. Well, that cured the problem but then several months later, I had a burned valve. "

You do know that hi-test and 10% ethanol are not the same.
Hi-test burns more stably, less detonation, willing to bet "hi-test" has lower peak cylinder temperatures than regular. 10% ethanol actually burns with less power because ethanol has fewer BTU's than does gasoline.

[FB71]

Wow, were do we begin.

OK, best to start at the beginning.

Please explain these two:

"This will increase the cost of corn and cause the price of corn products to go UP big time."

Do you know that the reason they are wanting to increase the ethanol from 10 to 15% is that the capacity of existing blenders (ethanol into gasoline) has been reached. In order to meet the government ordered contamination of our gasoline supply with 36 billion gallons of ethanol they have to increase the percentage they add. No more corn will be planted for the production of ethanol they can't use what they have.

"I decided to try Hi-test gas. Well, that cured the problem but then several months later, I had a burned valve. "

You do know that hi-test and 10% ethanol are not the same.
Hi-test burns more stably, less detonation, willing to bet "hi-test" has lower peak cylinder temperatures than regular. 10% ethanol actually burns with less power because ethanol has fewer BTU's than does gasoline.

Bingo on all points.

[Pu241]

I got ahead of my self wading through the misinformation.

How do you attribute a burnt valve to Hi-test or 10% ethanol if that's what you mean?

[red stiva]

My cars not a vegetarian, it wants gas. The energy burned creating 15% ethanol (or even 10) overcomes the point of running ethanol. The planting, havesting, processing,and trucking the product in burns more fuel than we would if we ran straight gasoline. It eats fuel lines, carb diaphrams, attracts water, drops mileage and turns into varnish. It's time you join sema action network at http://www.carinitiative.com/ and get informed, tell your representative's what you think before we lose our hobby.

[Ogrekhan]

"QUOTE"My cars not a vegetarian, it wants gas. The energy burned creating 15% ethanol (or even 10) overcomes the point of running ethanol."

That's debatable, considering that in areas where they don't use ethanol MTBE is often used. MTBE makes it's way into the water table and has horrible effects. If I had my way my car would be a vegetarian . I'd love to find a simple diesel swap for my festy , and run bio diesel.

[Pu241]

I'd love to find a simple diesel swap for my festy , and run bio diesel.

Why go through the trouble of making/buying biodiesel use straight WVO or VO, blended if you have too.

MTBE has been banned if I'm not mistaken, because of that very issue.

[phyaz91]

... if you want... marine gas is free of ethanol... go to a marine supple store or marina and fill up a couple 5 gallon containers and voalah

[fastiva]

Where I work at, we have our own gas pumps for company vehicles. The gas we are supplied with is part ethanol (not sure the %). Some of our older vehicles are carbed and the ethanol gas has messed up the carbs on just about all of them. Not to mention all of our small "off road" use vehicles, lawn mowers, weedeaters etc. We never had a problem from any of them untill after they started giving us the ethanol gas.

[rbrown]

... if you want... marine gas is free of ethanol... go to a marine supple store or marina and fill up a couple 5 gallon containers and voalah

I think I will have to see around here. Being as we are so emissions crazy in this county, it might be for not.

MTBE has been banned if I'm not mistaken, because of that very issue.

You are correct. One of our clients was a supplier. About put them out of business.

If I had my way my car would be a vegetarian . I'd love to find a simple diesel swap for my festy , and run bio diesel.

I too have thought about diesel swap. Don't really care if it is bio or not. The mileage would be (could be) insane.

Of course I need to get started on my b6t swap as well so I talk a good talk. LOL

[iceracerdude]

Ok, lets get some things straight here. "Hi-test" as you put it is designed to control some of the heat that might have burnt your valves. In fact it was the exact opposite of what you thought, the lower octane might be one of the things that contributed to the burnt valves, you simply got the "premium" in there too late.
You may in fact, might have had your base timing too far advanced as well, or simply have been running too lean for what ever reason, 2 other important things that cause pinging or pre-ignition.
So let's really call this stuff what it is, 87,89, and lets say 91 octane gas. The higher the octane the less chance for pre-ignition or knock, that's the point of it's whole exsistance. That's why on higher compression cars, the manufacturer calls for premium fuel. (or "hi-test" or "ethel") Turbo and supercharged cars count as "high comression" by the way. Lower octane ignites easier, and burns hotter period.
One of the the reasons the older cars don't like the alcohol is, it eats up the rubber parts, I'm talking "carburator old" especially. Another reason older cars don't like "newer" fuels is the absence of "lead additive" which was easier on valves.
Take a guess what the octane rating is on straight methanol? If you guessed around 113 you be right, and E85 is actually 85% alcohol!
This is all very old information that us turbo and supercharged guy's have known for decades.

[BUSTIVA]

I run on e85 so I could car less lol. Bring on the corn!!!

[sasquatch]

I run on e85 so I could car less lol. Bring on the corn!!!

i WANT to run my car on e85 i think its a great fuel, its like cheap race fuel and its less harmfull to the earth