E-85 Stiva

[Ford Fester]

So I was working this saturday and some dufus put e-85 in his honda pilot. Check engine light came on and he realized what he did and called our shop to drain out the e-85 and put in some regular. I drained and kept the e-85 for fuel for my dads pickup which is compatable. It got me thinking...i have ran e-85 in my aspire a couple times and it ran but had zero power.....i bumped the timing up and it ran a little better. So i decided to put 7 gallons of e-85 and 1 gallon of 91 in my stiva and she runs amazing. My question is should i bump timing up or leave it and are there any bigger injectors i could possibly put in per say 1.6 injectors or am i wasting my time?

[sasquatch]

get a wide band in your car and see what its doing, then if the afr's are out, get diffrent injectors or adjust your vaf a bit (i would only do this a tiny bit... dont just loosen the spring a bunch to try and make it work...)

[LoneManWolf]

correct me if i'm wrong as i might be
but won't running e85 in a non compatible vehicle destroy all the seals and such in it?

[festivaWES]

yep...fuel injector o-rings, and fuel line (rubber)

[Ford Fester]

thats a myth...i went to a tech school where the auto class ran e-85 in a non flex fuel vehicle for 5 years 125,000 miles with no issues what so ever...did a total tear down just to see how the parts would look and they actually looked cleaner than regular fuel. E-85 means cooler burn so you need to change your spark plugs to a cooler burning plug and everyone thinks that it is a more dry fuel because of the acohol but when compared to e10 it is the same. e-85 has additive to make a ready fuel for flex meaning there no difference in changing or mixing fuels when using a flex fuel compatable vehicle...which in lemans terms means the computer is programmed to understand the fuel properties/maps of the higher alcohol content.

[Ford Fester]

Didnt realize vaf's were adjustable....i have a wideband that i will stick in there and see what she reads. Ill let ya know.

[sketchman]

thats a myth...i went to a tech school where the auto class ran e-85 in a non flex fuel vehicle for 5 years 125,000 miles with no issues what so ever...E-85 means cooler burn so you need to change your spark plugs to a cooler burning plug

I've heard that, "You can run E-85 in a regular vehicle." before, but if the alcohol burns cooler, why would you need plugs that remove more heat from the combustion chamber? Shouldn't you go hotter if anything? Not calling you a liar. I just want to know the reasoning.

[Pu241]

thats a myth...i went to a tech school where the auto class ran e-85 in a non flex fuel vehicle for 5 years 125,000 miles with no issues what so ever...did a total tear down just to see how the parts would look and they actually looked cleaner than regular fuel.

I have no doubts the mechanical parts looked fine.
I however have questions of the fuel handling components like the tank, fuel lines and seals.
If it was that easy I don't think UL would be spending time and money looking into gasket material issues.

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/ul_e85_gaskets_seals_080207.pdf

Seals and gaskets formulated for gasoline or even 10% ethanol (aka crapoline) may or may not hold up in 20% or more ethanol content, let alone E85. And the older the vehicle the better the odds of a failure in the fuel system components. As the festives as a whole approach 20 yrs old I'm not certain I'd take the chance and run E85, but it's your car and a tank may not cause any issues other than a lack of power and fuel economy!

[Ford Fester]

I guess i was always told you will need colder plugs...maybe colder meaning plugs made for cooler burning fuel (hot plugs) instead of regular.

[festivaWES]

I think what you were told was a myth...

Keep running that E-85 and tell me what happens in the next 20,000 miles.

[Ford Fester]

will do

[Ghost]

i have no personal experience with it but lots of my turbo buddies run e85 in their turbo cars. evo's, 240's and similar with no issues. basically cheap race fuel. ive considered it but with the limited availability and the tiny gas tank on the festiva, and the worse mpg, i cant justify it.

[Pu241]

Ghost, no one is questioning E85 better combustion characteristics!
Unquestionably, it has a better octane rating and is a fine fuel for turbo applications.
We are debating its long term effects on the various fuel system components, not designed for contact with high ethanol containing fuels..
Specifically, the tank, fuel lines, and seals.
None of the cars your turbo buddies use E85 in are as old as our cars are and they will likely hold up better in the short term. Realistically, how long do you think those cars will be on the road and with the same owners for us the know of any failures.

[sketchman]

I guess i was always told you will need colder plugs...maybe colder meaning plugs made for cooler burning fuel (hot plugs) instead of regular.

Generally, when people say they put in hotter plugs they think they've put in a "hotter" firing plug, when it really means that it removes less heat than a colder one and the colder the plug, the more heat it removes from the CC. Google "spark plug heat range explanation" for a more wordy explanation. I've heard life long mechanics even get it wrong before. That and cars only pull with one wheel. My jaw almost drops when I hear that one.

[Ford Fester]

first tank of e85 through, filled her up again. Milage shows 32 but cost per mile went down. No issues, bumped timing up and it runs like it would on regular.