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  • #16
    Don't know how factual this is, but I got this in my email today..

    As you may already be aware, Houston has been designated as one of only two city regions in Texas to begin receiving Reformulated Gasoline with Ethanol (RFG) in the continuing effort to reduce our local air pollution levels. (The Dallas area is the other 'lucky' region.)

    Following is a compilation of information taken from various industry sources regarding the status and timing of the region's planned transition to ethanol gasoline, as well as some key points about how we are all about to be affected by this significant change. Since the various news media have not yet figured out 'there's a story here', much of the downside of this transition is yet to publicly surface. The information here is offered strictly to assist you in making informed decisions as to where you purchase your fuel over the next few months.


    Ethanol, otherwise known as ethyl alcohol (and once known as corn liquor in certain parts of the US) has been designated as the 'additive of choice' in many part of the United States to help reduce the level of Volatile Organic Carbons (VOC's) and oxides of nitrogen and sulfur which are introduced into the atmosphere by all internal combustion engines. Ethanol is replacing MTBE, a better (for engines) and less expensive additive mandated by the federal government some years ago. However, MTBE also proved to be particularly efficient in its ability to move out from leaking underground storage tanks (UST's) into the surrounding soil and groundwater resources, hence the need to find an alternative additive.

    The local counties that have been designated as RFG areas are: Harris, Brazoria, Chambers, Fort Bend, Galveston, Liberty, Montgomery and Waller. This means that all gasoline sold within these counties will be required to contain ethanol. State law requires that decals will be posted on all fueling point dispensers that say the fuel "contains 10% ethanol" or that it "contains up to 10% ethanol".

    Right now, the schedule of beginning deliveries by the major gasoline suppliers to their stations in this area is as follows:

    Exxon: April 4th
    Shell: April 12th
    Citgo: April 15th
    Conoco: April 16th
    Valero: April 16th
    Chevron: April 18th
    Texaco: April 18th

    I'm not suggesting that these are the only people you could or should buy your gas from. But this is where the 'downside' story begins and it's some pretty important stuff when it comes to the wellbeing of your car.

    The key thing to understand about ethanol is that it is soluble in water. This means that water and ethanol mix freely, whereas water and gasoline do not mix – they are insoluble, meaning that gasoline and water remain in separate 'phases' when they are in contact with each other – including in the UST's beneath your favorite gas station. The gas typically floats on top of any water and sludge accumulated in the bottom of the tanks. (This is also why you may have heard it's never a good idea to buy your gasoline at a station when the fuel supply truck is there filling up the tanks. The high speed pumping of the fresh gas into the UST stirs up the bottom water and sediment which can then end up in your gas tank.)

    Right now, the industry seems fairly united in their recognition that as little as one-half of one percent (0.5%) of water in a UST will cause "serious phase separation with the ethanol gasoline blend". Folks, that's not much water. And whereas that water used to sit idly by in the bottom of a UST, it's now going to mix freely with the ethanol gasoline on its way to your gas tank and motor!

    Virtually all UST's are known to contain various amounts of water, either from unintentional punctures, rust-outs or leaking valves or from intentional means. Did you know that most tanks contain a 'spill bucket' around the filler neck of the tank, right beneath the ground level manhole cover? When it rains, the spill bucket catches any rain run-off that drops down from the store's tarmac. When the guy shows up with the big gasoline truck to refill the UST's, guess where the water in the spill bucket goes? That's right – he lifts the bucket an inch or two and the valve in the bottom of the bucket drops the water into the UST! This hasn't been a problem with non-RFG gasoline, but because of ethanol's solubility with water, this is a HUGE problem with RFG gas. Needless to say, the truck drivers are being advised to change their spill bucket procedures with the new ethanol gasoline. Let's hope they actually do it.

    Depending on their financial resources, gas stations are going to handle 'the water problem' in different ways. The major suppliers and their 'company' stores (typically identifiable by their more elaborate landscaping and overall cleanliness) already have tank cleaning companies going around to their locations to clean and remove the sludge and 'water bottoms' from their tanks. This is the best solution but, obviously, it's also the most expensive. However, from their own past experience, they also want to be sure they minimize the number of claims they get from car owners whose vehicles have quit running because of a tank of 'bad gas'.

    For those gas suppliers and stations with more limited resources, the second best alternative is to install new disposable filters on their fuel dispensers. While most already have some sort of filtration on their systems, the ethanol gas requires a different kind of filter and they will have to be changed much more frequently at first. Will they actually do that or will they try to save a little money? (I doubt that trying to change the fuel line filter in your own car more often will have any effect, since it's already much coarser than the 10 micron filters being mentioned for gas stations).

    Now we come to the 'Mom and Pop' stores. What, if anything, are they going to do (or can they afford to do) about their water problem? Your guess is as good as mine but over the next several months, and for my own piece of mind, I'll be avoiding those locations. This may not be the best time to be buying from the absolutely lowest-priced gas station, particularly if it's a small, unbranded station. (Remember that this whole issue only involves those counties listed at the beginning of the piece).

    Several other points to be made about ethanol gasoline:

    · The industry does not yet seem to have a clear picture of how much your gas mileage will drop using ethanol gasoline – but they are clear on one thing – your gas mileage will drop. Figures have been cited from as little as a 5% reduction in gas mileage to as high as 20-25%. I guess we'll all have to wait and see.

    · The consequences of getting a bad tank of gas in your own car can vary significantly, from having to change the spark plugs and fuel filter, to the repair and/or replacement of multi-hundred dollar items such as fouled fuel injectors, air mass meter, catalytic converter, to a complete engine rebuild for such things as burned pistons, piston rings, or valves.

    · The only 'anecdotal' piece of information I have received about ethanol gasoline, i.e., I have not yet been able to confirm this through any type of 'official' source, is that ethanol gasoline is going to be a problem for all 2-cycle gas engines such as string trimmers, leaf blowers, as well as some jet-skis, 4-wheelers, lawn mowers and motorcycles. Any engine where 2-cycle oil must be mixed with the gasoline, either in advance or 'on-the-fly' while the engine is running, is apparently going to have significant problems with ethanol gasoline. Most of the indications I've gotten are that the engines won't run at all! I just don't know that for certain right now so this is just a warning of a potential problem.


    I hope you have found this information useful and I wish you 'good hunting' for your gasoline supplies during this critical switchover period.

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    • #17
      I put 9.5 gallons into my aspire once. it was so low it was cutting out on uphills. that was scary.

      last night though i put 20 bucks in... 7.43 something. I didn't know that pumps wouldnt click off if you were topping off while it was at is slow-to-finish-up-the-dollar mode... so i spilled like a quart of gas on the ground.

      Luckily it was my friend buying my gas for driving her ass around though

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      • #18
        The 10% around here has been a little beyond that for a long time,
        Back in the mid to late 80's when I worked at a Cheverolet dealer ,we had a problem with carbed cars not liking the 10% ethanol when it was hot and humid out ,Ethanol has such a lower boiling point , That when people would shut there cars off for 15 min , and come back out to start up ,they would run rich and load up ,on a new car .since soo many was experiencing this ,Chevy wanted it checked into.
        So we got a new tool from Kent-Moore to test the gas ,now keep in mind this is still in the 80's
        The Ethanol content was 28% then , I wonder what it is now ?
        FI. cars accept it alot easier ,with the fuel loop feedback ,because the fuel does not sit in the rail and boil.
        It is sad that the quality of fuel varies from state to state , in parts of MO. I can't get anything above 91 oct., and I am sure the % of etanol varies from state to state to.
        ------------------------------------------------
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        It is being modded , a little at a time http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2214953


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        • #19
          Gasoline can absorb some water, .1-.3%. The ethanol does absorb more, but at that low volume it shouldn't really damage your engine, just make it run worse.

          Around here we get 10% ethanol blend gas at some stations(arco mostly). It is a little cheaper, about 10%, and I get about 10% worse milage. I don't buy it because it makes my car run like shit. The O2 sensor isn't designed for reading the ethanol content of the exhaust, so it doesn't give a correct A/F to the ECU, which then runs rich.

          In the next couple years they will start giving better and better tax breaks to people who use alternative fuel, at that point I think I'll switch to pure ethanol as a fuel source. Possibly E85 if it's cheap enough and high enough octane.
          OX SMASH!!

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          • #20
            I wonder where you got that, DJ. There is a lot of false information in that text. MPG loss is WELL documented. With E-85 it is typically 20-25% (That's 85% ethanol). You could do the math to figure out what it would be with a 10% mix, but it will certainly be less than 5% loss of MPG.

            Most new fleet-type cars are designed to work with ethanol. Viton instead of rubber. Stainless steel fuel tanks and lines. Really, ehtanol is not that bad except for rubber and aluminum parts. It is highly corrosive to aluminum, and so usually those parts are replaced or coated.

            BTW - most gas pumps have filters and dryers incorporated into the line. Dirt and water don't get to your tank. If the filter or dryer doesn't work, neither does the pump.

            There is currently an ethanol shortage, BTW. Could get interesting if that keeps up.

            check out http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php

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            • #21
              Here in Milwaukee and the surrounding counties we have the 10% mix as well. Ive never noticed a difference in how the car runs with that or just regular gas. Gas prices here are between 2.79 and 2.89 a gallon. Its almost making me re consider my B6T swap.
              Paul
              91GL
              Menomonee Falls, WI

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              • #22
                Originally posted by jeffdjeffd
                I wonder where you got that, DJ. There is a lot of false information in that text.
                eh who knows.. told ya I didn't know how much of it was true...

                IMHO, if someone stands to make money by tampering with or using outdated pumps etc.. it will be done.. And if they can get away with turning water into gold.. the crooks will do it..

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                • #23
                  I noticed Walmart gas made my mileage drop, I went back to HEB gas and the mileage improved, its the best its ever been ever for city driving right now, I think about 37 the alignment might have helped that.

                  The O2 sensor isn't designed for reading the ethanol content of the exhaust, so it doesn't give a correct A/F to the ECU, which then runs rich.
                  It doesn't read the gasoline content either. How would that make a difference?
                  97 Ford Aspire 2dr 5 sp
                  92 Isuzu Impulse 1.8 5 sp 140HP, handling by Lotus, balls by Isuzu.
                  95 Mitsubishi Expo 2.4
                  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...64/xsext2a.jpg

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                  • #24
                    the O2 sensor samples the oxygen content in the exhaust---

                    too much oxygen ----- engine is running lean

                    too little oxygen------- engine is running rich

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by xpnsyd
                      IMHO, if someone stands to make money by tampering with or using outdated pumps etc.. it will be done.. And if they can get away with turning water into gold.. the crooks will do it..
                      True, so true. I have a friend who is an inspector here. They check those things for tampering when they inspect and certify pumps. He's admitted many times, though, that he has such an enourmous territory to cover that he isn't nearly as throrough as he should be.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by getnhi1
                        I noticed Walmart gas made my mileage drop, I went back to HEB gas and the mileage improved, its the best its ever been ever for city driving right now, I think about 37 the alignment might have helped that.

                        The O2 sensor isn't designed for reading the ethanol content of the exhaust, so it doesn't give a correct A/F to the ECU, which then runs rich.
                        It doesn't read the gasoline content either. How would that make a difference?
                        DO NOT use walmart gas. I just drove my dad's festiva up here and it was pinging very badly. I've never heard anything ping that bad. The only gas he uses is Walmart's. I bet it will take 2-3 seafoam treatments before I clean all that white stuff out, I don't know what that white ash is but as far as I know if doesn't contain any ethanol.
                        91 rusty Festiva 260k

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