Ignition timing issue

[95Compact]

Here we have the distributor end of the camshaft, showing the position of the drive slot for the distributor it is vertical:

[95Compact]

Now, with the disto mounted as it came off - you can see on the 4-lobed trigger wheel - there is a '3' with an arrow and on the other side, a dot... are these in the right position? Also, you can see the flat for the rotor:

[95Compact]

Finally, one of the rotor mounted to the disto. It is aligned with the flat on the disto shaft so that it points (fires) the cylinder that the flat is pointing at:

[95Compact]

Also, just for information, with the engine positioned as seen in the pics, the crank accessory pulley has its ignition timing mark at about the center of the timing scale (so, it too seems to be in the right position relative to the crank gear)...

Just to be clear, if I get the disto close to the center of it's adjustment range, the timing light showing the mark on the pulley WILL get into the range of the timing scale on the block...

BUT, the car stops running if the mark is showing anywhere close to the scale.

Again, the disto has to be adjusted fully clockwise (advanced) just for the car to run...

I'm stumped!

[FestYboy]

ah HA!!! ok!, mechanical and ignition timing are spot on. your issue is your idle speed (too low). go to the passenger side of the carb and look for a longish white plastic knob. you need to screw that part IN to bring the base idle up to about 700-750 before adjusting the dizzy (or give it 2 good turns and see if she'll hold an idle with the dizzy set in the middle). the engine MUST be warm and off the choke before you can set the ignition timing.

[95Compact]

Tried that yesterday No amount of idle adjustment or even careful feathering of the gas pedal would keep it running with the disto in the middle of its adjustment range... It will only run/drive when the adjustment is maxed out clockwise (advanced)...

I'll go hook up my tach and check the timing again at 750 rpm (it may have been around 1100-1200 when I checked it yesterday)

[georgeb]

I don't see how you can be sure that the crank notch is at 12 o'clock without seeing it which would involve removing the pulley(s) or crank bolt.

[95Compact]

You can see the notch at the back of the gear - it lines up with one of the teeth, and you can plainly see that tooth aligned with the pointer on the case, without removing the accessory pulley. Of course, a good flashlight is mandatory!

[TominMO]

Tried that yesterday No amount of idle adjustment or even careful feathering of the gas pedal would keep it running with the disto in the middle of its adjustment range... It will only run/drive when the adjustment is maxed out clockwise (advanced)...

I'll go hook up my tach and check the timing again at 750 rpm (it may have been around 1100-1200 when I checked it yesterday)

In your first post, you say that the car has always needed the disty to be rotated all the way clockwise to even run, since you've owned it. From reading this whole thread, I think the PO installed the rotor one position off (120 degrees as Festyboy said) and you are incorrect in thinking that it is on correctly. I would recommend triple-checking that, unless you are 100% positive that it is correct. Even so, as an experiment, installing the rotor 120 degrees advanced (one position clockwise) from where it is should let you get the disty body back to its normal range, and not have to be super-advanced. These are all just simple mechanical relationships--rotor, disty body, cam gear and crank gear--so it's gotta be an easy solution.

[95Compact]

TominMO, did you look at the pics I posted earlier? Maybe I'm missing something, but all looks right to me... check out the dizzy pics - these are all taken at #1TDC.

I don't doubt that the PO's 'mechanic' did something completely wrong - the little thing was a wreck when I got it- valve timing off a tooth, valve lash horrendous, etc...

I like your idea about installing the rotor 120deg clockwise, but I'm pretty sure its where its supposed to be (as in the flat of the trigger wheel is positioned towards the cylinder it is firing).

Finally found my manual and double-checked everything there... I agree its all relative alignment, but I'm still stumped as to whats off...

I've got her warming up now for another ignition timing check, I forgot to also remove the LOWER vac advance hose when I checked it yesterday...

[Movin]

Just to make sure that sometime in the past the crank bolt
did not come loose...the result is a wallowed out crank gear,
worn crankshaft and destroyed index. The cheap fix was to
JB weld the whole thing back together, these back yard fixes
usually leave the timing off. The check for this is to pull #1
spark plug and rock the engine until the piston is EXACTLY
top center, then look at your marks, they should be just as
you showed in the picture.

[95Compact]

Well guys, no change to the ignition timing (pulley mark still showing about 25-35deg advanced to just keep it running)... tried turning up the idle to about 2krpm and as soon as i rotate the disto off of its clockwise adjustment limit, it starts to die (and won't start again, even with gas pedal feathering) until I rotate it back to the limit...

Also, the rotor will not mount in any other orientation but with the 'wiper arm' aligned with the flat on the trigger wheel shaft. Even tried to force it on, will not go any other way.

Plus! I removed the disto and it will not mount 180 out either - it's driveshaft is cut with the alignment bar slightly off-center so that it will not fit 180 out...

Really stumped now!

[95Compact]

Just to make sure that sometime in the past the crank bolt
did not come loose...the result is a wallowed out crank gear,
worn crankshaft and destroyed index. The cheap fix was to
JB weld the whole thing back together, these back yard fixes
usually leave the timing off. The check for this is to pull #1
spark plug and rock the engine until the piston is EXACTLY
top center, then look at your marks, they should be just as
you showed in the picture.

Movin, you may be on to something here - I did rock the engine with a wooden dowel inserted into #1 to find TDC, but I only did that to check the cam gear alignment. I will do it again now and check the crank gear mark as well.

Reasin I say this is because my crank pulley and gear DO wobble some and in the past I've removed the timing belt and tightened the crank bolt down, but the wobble always comes back eventually...

Thanks for all the help guys!

[95Compact]

THATS it!

Sure enough, the timing belt is properly aligned between crank gear and cam gear, but the crank gear is about 4teeth off the TDC mark when cyl#1 is actually at TDC...

Not surprisingly, this amounts to about 25-35 degrees of rotation...

So, now what?

[bhazard]

Given your wobble issue, you really need to check the keyway in the crank for wear.