festy weight

[blkfordsedan]

To paraphrase what the tech guys said at one track we ran at: "There are too many different make and model 4 cylinder cars to tech everthing on everyone of them", so they just gave up.

LOL, at most of the small tracks around here, if it's not a small block Chevy they don't have a clue. There are some advantages to running a Ford. If you happen to find one of the few Tech guys that knows Fords, he usually doesn't say anything anyway.

[blkfordsedan]

Ghost: you think anybody ever won a lo-ball competition by playing perfectly straight and being absolutely honest? Inventiveness, ingenuity and stretching the rules is what keeps those car race games alive, and interesting, and why race officials continue to keep making more rules. Luckily this fellow is entirely constrained by limitations of 1 horsepower per 21 pounds. Hopefully track officials weigh and dyno all of the entrants. Chances are they don't.

Exactly. Guaranteed that the top 3 or 4 of any class are "stretching" the rules. Figuring out how to "get the edge" is the funnest part!

I'm sure they weigh the top finishers after every race, but seriously doubt they dyno. My guess is they go by the factory HP rating to determine what your min weight needs to be. That tells me that anyone actually putting out the factory HP doesn't stand much chance (depending on track conditions). A nice, sticky track will show you who has the power in the first couple laps!

[anthony h]

Track judges won't know a B3 from a B6 providing you don't use a Mazda-script valve cover and don't shine the motor up too much. B6s (1.6 litre) VS Festy/Aspire B3 (1.3 litre) are common to 80s-90s 323s and Proteges. The MX3 B6 versions have 4 valves per cylinder and would be difficult to disguise.
I wouldn't be toying with flywheels too much, likely confuse the ECU.

why would lightening the flywheel confuse the ecu? the material would be taken off where the clutch is

[anthony h]

To paraphrase what the tech guys said at one track we ran at: "There are too many different make and model 4 cylinder cars to tech everthing on everyone of them", so they just gave up.

same where im thinkin bout runnin. besides, i dont want to cheat just so i can win. I just want to be competitive. If my car is as good as their's, i can out drive them. our track is concreate so i know its nothin like dirt, but what kind of suspension do you run?

[Advancedynamix]

People mistake my engine as stock all the time, and 21lbs per hp is on a really really bad day! Lol Put a BP in it with the Ford Valve cover and use a stock BP airbox, and make everything look like it was put there by ford. Then spray it down with wd40 and drive about 100 miles on dusty dirt roads. The engine will appear stock to anyone but festiva or Mazda buffs, and even some of the Mazda guys will just look at it with confusion (I get that all the time). It's only cheating if you get caught without a good excuse.:p

[Movin]

why would lightening the flywheel confuse the ecu? the material would be taken off where the clutch is

Newer cars use ECU's that detect engine miss by the speed each cylinder
produces, a lighter flywheel can move the sensors results outside of the
normal window and produce an engine light.

These old systems only detect crank shaft position and RPM, a lightened
flywheel will only produce the expected performance results.

With the collective power of this forum we can probably keep you "stock"
right into first place!!

[blkfordsedan]

Newer cars use ECU's that detect engine miss by the speed each cylinder
produces, a lighter flywheel can move the sensors results outside of the
normal window and produce an engine light.

These old systems only detect crank shaft position and RPM, a lightened
flywheel will only produce the expected performance results.

With the collective power of this forum we can probably keep you "stock"
right into first place!!

Seriously? Not saying you're wrong....I just never heard that before. Seems if the flywheel is balanced correctly, all it will do is increase the rate of engine acceleration and change in piston velocity. So, you're saying that even a moderate change in such would put it beyond the range of the factory sensor? Makes it kinda hard on performance upgrades, doesn't it? How do you fix that...a different sensor and/or ECU reprogramming?

Good golly.....what cars have this affliction?

[91mcnasty]

id think that moderate changes wouldnt affect it as much, but what do i know!

[Bert]

Old proverb: "old age and treachery overcomes youth and skill". Presumably serious racers want to have some of both.

Advancedynamix: A BP takes up a lot of space in a Festy engine bay. Pretty good that you can pull the wool over track judges eyes with that stunt! D'you happen to put a GTX DOHC emblem on the back of the car?

[ELUSIVE]

On topic of festy weight, my lisense papers say my car weighs 735kg(1620 lbs).. It's an 89 mazda 121 carb.. Does that sound right? Not complaining if it is it just seems a bit light... :S

[Movin]

Seriously? Not saying you're wrong....I just never heard that before. Seems if the flywheel is balanced correctly, all it will do is increase the rate of engine acceleration and change in piston velocity. So, you're saying that even a moderate change in such would put it beyond the range of the factory sensor? Makes it kinda hard on performance upgrades, doesn't it? How do you fix that...a different sensor and/or ECU reprogramming?

Good golly.....what cars have this affliction?

When you plug into a car and it can identify an individual cylinder
as missing or weak this car is using this logic. The question is how
far back do we go to avoid this technology? Normal flywheel surfacing
will not affect it but race type lightening could.

Most of these same cars can be flashed, if the problem came up with a race
car still using a stock ECM it could be addressed by a corrective flash.

Again, our cars do not have or use this logic.

In the cars that do use this it is far more common to see a cam throw the
300 codes than anything else including a flywheel.

[Advancedynamix]

^ that will only be a concern with a drive by wire, obd2 management system. Those weren't commonly used on consumer automobiles until around 2000 here in the states. There isn't an obd1 management system ( pre 96) that will have a problem with a lightened flywheel. However, lightened flywheels aren't that beneficial. In fact, the flywheel acts as a harmonic balancer, so changing it's attributes can lead to failures like shattered gears and oil pumps. The inline 4 cylinder engine has a tendency to produce some nasty harmonics that can shatter hardened steel.

[nonamekid]

If you run a cat delete pipe and advance the ignition, that is probably worth 15 HP right there. If you can sneak a B6 in there and do the above, you're looking at about 100 crank HP.

Here is the pipe I had in mind--looks like a catalytic converter, but is really just a straight-through pipe:
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/index...d3937e2582abd8

A cat delete pipe and advanced ignition won't net you 15HP over the 63HP that is in the car stock. You might see 15 if your existing cat is plugged and severely hampering the motor, but not 15 from a properly working cat on a B3. The most benefit you might see is 5-7 HP if your lucky.

A highflow air filter instead of the stock airbox will help a little, as would a header with the right size exhaust. But with such small displacement from the B3, you would be lucky to see 80 HP without expensive modifications, which would defeat the purpose of the racing class.

[blkfordsedan]

When we installed a 157 tooth lightened flywheel on our stock car (400M) it made a noticable difference accelerating out of the corner. Obviously, we didn't have any concerns with harmonics or a crank driven oil pump. I have heard some nasty tales about aftermarket under-drive pullies/balancers on 4.6L & 5.4L Fords leading to oil pump failure, however.

Those of us running an E-series trans and the Festy flywheel/clutch are probably already running the lightest factory set-up. Anyone know how the stock E-series flywheel compares to an F-series or G-series?

[anthony h]

Newer cars use ECU's that detect engine miss by the speed each cylinder
produces, a lighter flywheel can move the sensors results outside of the
normal window and produce an engine light.

These old systems only detect crank shaft position and RPM, a lightened
flywheel will only produce the expected performance results.

With the collective power of this forum we can probably keep you "stock"
right into first place!!

Im no expert on festiva's, but i am an ase certified auto technician. I have never heard of a lightened flywheel creating any type of engine management problems. A car with a distributor monitors engine speed with it or a crankshaft sensor if it is equiped with one. We have ran mustangs in stock and modified divisions with 2.3l engines for years. we cut the flywheels on them so thin that we weld two throwout bearings together to make the clutch work. Granted we run carbs, but we dont have harmonic issues. Not tryin to be a know it all, but i dont understand how cutting the flywheel would create a problem.