The B3 as a generator: pro and con

[Safety Guy]

While B3s don't yet grow on trees, many of us have, or can get, a spare B3 engine. Some of us have at least one that already runs okay, if not well.

One idea I've had for several years now is to take one of my spare B3s and make a generator out of it. I know a 1.3 4 cylinder is probably not the best type of motor to make into a generator, but consider the following:

-if you already have one, it's kinda like having it "free"
-you're probably pretty familiar with it and have probably done some work on it
-you probably have some spare parts around to fit it
-if you have more than one, whether they're in a car or not, or maybe you have other Mazda B series engines, you have potential "parts interchangeability"
-the above includes spark plugs, oil filters, etc. you probably have on hand

Now you could buy yourself a "proper" "better" generator. How much would this cost? Probably several hundred for a small gas generator, and more for a larger diesel one.

But you have a B3. Free. With the knowledge of how to take care of it and parts on hand.

A B3 generator would also serve as an "emergency parts source" as well. Even to the point you could "de-gen" it and swap it back into a car! (Only if you had to!)

Before considering the downside, please reconsider what I wrote above. Think about it. This is not supposed to be a slick, whole house emergency genset for the modern Yuppie.

Think more like, "an extra source of power if I needed it." Or "something I could make after a couple years of collecting the other parts needed to make this work."

So this ain't supposed to be anything fantastic, powerful or up to date. But it would be low cost, you're familiar with it, and it just might suit some folks' purposes.


Now for the downside. There are reasons this might not work too well, and I'm not the guy to figure it out. Which is why I'm posting this.

While keeping in mind this is NOT supposed to be the best generator you COULD have, is it:

-feasible?

-worth doing, even at low cost?

-how much power might this put out? Enough to make it worthwhile in a pinch?

And so forth.

Some of you will know this stuff, or at least have opinions worth more than mine.

For myself, once I learn to weld, and get some land, I'm just thinking this would be a cool project, would fit into an "occasional" use plan, to charge batteries and maybe be part of a modest solar/wind system.

How about conversion to LPG or whatever gas some cars and forklifts run on? We wouldn't need to meet auto safety requirements, remember. Just basic safe building codes, etc.

Have at it!!

Karl

[Movin]

Are you thinking about something like this ? or larger like pto 16k units, either way these
would work good mounted on a half size trailer or something.

http://www.harborfreight.com/10000-watts-max-7200-watts-rated-belt-driven-generator-head-45416.html

Gasoline would be fine for intermittent or emergency use. Just keep enough!

[PhoenixSHO]

Are you thinking about something like this ? or larger like pto 16k units, either way these
would work good mounted on a half size trailer or something.

http://www.harborfreight.com/10000-watts-max-7200-watts-rated-belt-driven-generator-head-45416.html

Gasoline would be fine for intermittent or emergency use. Just keep enough!

With 4 of these linked to a B3 , you could run the house off-grid.

[Bert]

Likely a pipe dream of mine but I have set aside an old truck Ford 300 inline six for such an eventuality, knowing that were also common industrial and commercial engines (including roles as generators). It has no electronics nor fuel injection. Problem with a B3 (may not be a problem if you're electrically inclined and keep an ECU along-side) is adapting to a generator and somehow incorporating a governor to keep the revs where you want them. You're right though; many of us have spare engines and lots of parts.

[Festy46]

Years ago I welded a flat belt pulley to an old Chevy 6 cylinder car motor flywheel to run a buzz saw for cutting firewood. That worked fine. The only problem I can see is you will need a "stand alone" governor to maintain engine speed when you put a load on it. They make belt driven governors you can by for this purpose. Without a governor, the engine will probably stall with a heavy load.

[Movin]

Just put cruise control on the flywheel..cheap and easy..
The only alternative fuel that makes sense from a miles
wide grid down like sandy just did would be to have a dual
fuel..with the second fuel wood gas. All the debris is potential
fuel after a disaster. A b3 might run two of those at low RPM
you could gear down some but at some point it would start
taking more fuel than is reasonable making a bigger motor
more feasible. Wood gas..gasifier, producer gas, wood for fuel
this is old tech from the world war days when petro was not
available for civilians. With some modern tech wood gas would
really make sense because that is the one fuel we have more
of in most disasters.

[Movin]

With 4 of these linked to a B3 , you could run the house off-grid.

Probably cheaper than than the power company too!!
Except the cost of permits and inspections makes it
impossible!!

[Safety Guy]

Good thoughts everyone! I'm getting a clearer picture of what I could do.

I'm thinking carbed, with a hand throttle.

Or maybe just leave the engine in the car! Cut off what front end I need to mount a platform for the gen head. Then maybe a gen clutch to engage it when needed. Drive the car where the electricity is needed, set in park, then engage generator.

Or cut off the front end, build a shelter over it and attach gen set. Think of a Festiva or Aspire that has a body too rusted around the rear axle. Park it and use it as a generator! You could even sit in the car and have heat while you are powering something up! It would also serve as an emergency shelter, in which you could add extra insulation and some supplies.

There are all sorts of Hillybillyish ways to do this!

Movin wrote:

"Except the cost of permits and inspections makes it
impossible!!"

Not in the middle of nowhwere! That's where I want to use it!

Karl

[Festy46]

If you're planning on using your B3 generator for "the end of the world" electric generation, you might want to consider a steam engine. There are companies making new ones...not rebuilt antiques. Here's a link to one of them with a lot of neat information. A steam engine is more complicated than you might think.

http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/20hpse.htm

[getnpsi]

using what you already have vs maxxing out a credit card for a cnc steam engine built this decade is totally different sides of the spectrum. If it keeps the lights on in hard times, a "thereifixedit" is going to be all you need. thereifixedit.com great site if you swim thru the obvious fakes.

[lessersivad]

Karl,
I don't really see anything worng with using what is on hand.

If you can get past the electronics that control the engine, come up with a governor of some sort, and a reliable generator head, go for it.

The electronics shouldn't be too big of a hurdle to control the engine as it is in a Festy/Aspire.

Governor.
When I originally put my generator together I attempted to use an aftermarket cruise control as the governor. No dice. As far as I know, (and I've been wrong plenty of times), the cruise control didn't want to keep the engine at a constant speed due to the engine "reacting" a whole lot faster then a vehicle changing speed.

If you have access to a hoist and a vehicle with cruise control try this experiment.

Raise vehicle on the hoist.
Start engine and place the transmission in drive.
Run the speed up to 40-50 MPH and attempt to set the cruise.
Chances are the cruise may set and the RPMs will drop or raise quickly, "hunting" for the set speed, and cancelling the cruise.

The same thing happened on my generator.

I ended up buying an electronic governor that uses a tach pulse to maintain constant RPMs.

Generator head.
I'm know expert. Nor do I play one on television. I can only tell you what I use(d) for a generator head.
An ST type generator head I bought off ebay from a gentleman in Oregon.
Here is a write-up about the gen-head I'm talking about.

http://www.utterpower.com/ST.htm

Joel Koch used to import these and sell them. Unfortunately he no longer does this. However there are other sources for the same type of gen-head. I have the original 15 kw head I bought along with around a year ago I got a 12 kw head with a diesel engine off craigslist.

My generator came about right after the east coast blackout of 2003. Sitting with no fans or AC was not exactly my idea of fun. So I started doing some research and put one together.

The engine is a 1983 Ford Ranger 2.3 with propane carb. I bought the whole truck for scrap price and drove it home, complete with 50 gallon propane tank mounted in the bed.

I kept the engine "as is" except i changed over to a points distributor from a 1974 Pinto for ease of trouble shooting.

The ST head is run by a 6 rib serpetine belt off the pulley on the engine that was for the power steering.

I installed a sealed box containing the guts from a breaker box. I also installed 8 duplex, weather proof plugs along with a 240v twist lock to hook to the shop/house.

I mounted all of this to an enclosed single axle trailer and it has worked pretty much flawlessly every time I have called upon it's service.

Well I think that's a long enough novel.

[blkfordsedan]

I think propane is the most feasible, providing you can find the carb setup. Most rural farms around here use propane for heat and have a large propane tank in the yard. You could pipe into this or even set it up so you could hook up to a 100Lb propane bottle. That way you can take the bottle into town to fill it.

[lessersivad]

I think propane is the most feasible, providing you can find the carb setup. Most rural farms around here use propane for heat and have a large propane tank in the yard. You could pipe into this or even set it up so you could hook up to a 100Lb propane bottle. That way you can take the bottle into town to fill it.

Just gotta keep in mind that with a propane carb that you need to be drawing liquid from the tank, not vapor.

I've only seen a 3 h.p. engine that was used for a liquid transfer pump actually run on vapor from a large tank.

[blkfordsedan]

I'm not sure how all that works on LPG. How do you draw the liquid? Just draw from the bottom of the tank?

[lessersivad]

All the larger stationary tanks, 124, 330, 500, 1000 gallon tanks have either a fitting on the bottom of the tank or on the "newer" tanks, on the top. The top liquid withdrawl has a dip tube that goes to the bottom of the tank.

Also, the "motor fuel" tanks have the dip tube set up.

I have in the past used a 20 lb. (barbeque tank) flipped upside down to get vehicles moved that had the regular tank disabled.

So, if say a 100 lb. tank was used it would be feasable to use it in the upside down position. Not probably the safest way to do it simply because the built in pressure relief valve would also release liquid if it "popped off".

1 cubic foot of liquid LP is capable of turning into well over 200 cubic feet of vapor.

This would result in a LARGE vapor cloud which, if finding an ignition source, well....

The safest tank would be a designed motor fuel tank. Heck even a fork lift tank would be a good idea. Except it wouldn't run an engine for any length of time if an extended outage occured.