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  • E15 Gasoline

    Just received this today.


    E15 Gasoline

    This week's warm Washington temperatures had some thinking about rolling the Lawn-Boy out of the garage for the first cut of the year. And we all know what that means: Difficult starts due to E10 gas that gels when it sits.
    Now, according to a new study, cars and truck may face the same fate thanks to President Obama's demand for a higher ethanol in the new E15 gas.
    The fuel industry's American Petroleum Institute tested the 15 percent ethanol gas approved in 2010 and found it gums up fuel systems, prompts "check engine" lights to come on, and messes with fuel gauge readings.
    "Failure of these components could result in breakdowns that leave consumers stranded on busy roads and highways," said the industry report. Worse: API said the fuel problems--not found in E5 or E10 blends--aren't always covered by auto warranties.
    The industry prefers pure fuel to an ethanol mix, but the report isn't likely to slow the administrations green push, according to a Washington auto lobbyist.
    The key points from the API report are below:
    The additional E15 testing, completed this month, has identified an elevated incidence of fuel pump failures, fuel system component swelling, and impairment of fuel measurement systems in some of the vehicles tested. E15 could cause erratic and misleading fuel gauge readings or cause faulty check engine light illuminations. It also could cause critical components to break and stop fuel flow to the engine. Failure of these components could result in breakdowns that leave consumers stranded on busy roads and highways. Fuel system component problems did not develop in the CRC tests when either E10 or E0 was used. It is difficult to precisely calculate how many vehicles E15 could harm. That depends on how widely it is used and other factors. But, given the kinds of vehicles tested, it is safe to say that millions could be impacted.
    In 2010 and 2011, EPA gave the green light to use E15 - the 15 percent ethanol gasoline blend - in model-year-2001-and-later cars and some other vehicles. EPA's action was irresponsible. EPA knew E15 vehicle testing was ongoing but decided not to wait for the results. Why did EPA move forward prematurely? Part of the answer may be the need to raise the permissible concentration level of ethanol so that greater volumes could be used, as required by the federal Renewable Fuel Standard. Most gasoline sold today is an E10 blend, but rising volume requirements under the law can't be met much longer without going to higher blends. When Congress passed the law, it could not know it was creating this problem. Today we know. The answer is to repeal the RFS before it puts millions of vehicles and many motorists at risk.

    Assuming you were running straight gasoline and were then forced to switch to E10 (gasoline cut 10 percent with ethanol), your mileage will drop. The big question is by how much. The Environmental Protection Agency says E10 lowers mileage approximately 3 percent, which would drop your mileage from 19.6 to 19.0 mpg. Instead you're citing a drop between 10.2 and 15.9 percent, which, while similar to some E10-induced losses we've heard of, does seem large. We typically hear of mileage drops in the 6- to nearly 10-percent range, but then, folks experiencing a 3- to 5-percent drop probably aren't fired up enough to write us.
    Our opinion is your mileage drop is largely due to the lower energy content in ethanol (it's about two-thirds that of gasoline) Besides reduced mileage, ethanol aggressively attracts water, which leads to poor driveability and other issues. Ethanol is also corrosive to some metals and rubber, and while an oft-cited issue in the ethanol debate
    Cutting gasoline with ethanol is said to reduce gasoline consumption for a reduction in greenhouse gases and lessen dependence on imported oil, plus ethanol is considered a renewable resource. But even if true, the argument that ethanol saves gasoline is a tough sell when consumers see their fuel mileage drop, and the debate continues on how much water and energy it takes to produce ethanol in the U.S., so it is unclear whether ethanol is energy positive, or even neutral.

    Ethanol Yields Lousy and Expensive Gas Mileage:
    Ethanol is certainly no bargain. Although it typically sells for less than gasoline, a gallon of ethanol yields only 67% of its net energy, meaning about one-third fewer miles per gallon. On that basis, it has never been competitively priced.
    According to a study prepared by FarmEcon, ethanol E10 already added about $14.5 billion in automotive fuel costs during 2011 due to higher energy costs and negative effect on fuel mileage. This amounted to about 10 cents more for each gallon of U.S. gasoline. Ethanol tax credits (since discontinued), added another 4 cents/gallon.
    The Alcohol Wrecks Small Engines:
    Using ethanol blends in 2-stroke engines such as mowers and chainsaws results in a low octane mix (lean fuel) which can destroy them. Referring to E10 ethanol, Rich Herder, owner of a lawnmower repair business in Westfield, New Jersey, reported to Popular Mechanics that “It’s the biggest disaster to hit gasoline in my lifetime.” He estimates that as much as 75% of his repair work results from use of the blend.
    Ethanol Plays Havoc with Boat Engines and Fiberglass Gas Tanks:
    Ethanol tends to dissolve and release corrosive matter (gunk) such as resins, varnish and rust which contaminates fuel and travels through marine engines to clog filters, carburetor jets and injectors. Since boats live in a water environment, and ethanol (alcohol) loves to absorb water, use of ethanol above E10 invalidates all marine warranties.
    A particularly troublesome issue for boat and fishing enthusiasts is ethanol decomposition of fiberglass gas tanks. The usual fix involves tank replacement, often a costly and time-consuming project, although lining or sealing a tank is sometimes possible for added protection.


    :cry_smile::cry_smile::cry_smile:
    .
    A hunch is creativity trying to tell you something.

  • #2
    Re: E15 Gasoline

    idk why but here in cincinnati ohio the pumps dont say anything about ethanol, i cant even find a gas station with the stuff. i do notice a difference in how well my car runs with regular and premium, but i havent seen anything about ethanol at any station i go to.

    Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk 2

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    • #3
      Sorry my friend... It's a federal thing:

      Test fuel for ethanol to protect engines from contaminated E10 gasoline


      "Warning: Gas pump labeling when ethanol is added is NOT required in the following states:

      California, District of Columbia - DC, Indiana - In, Kansas - KS, Kentucky - KY,
      Maryland - MD, Michigan - MI, Minnesota - MN, Missouri - MO, Nevada - NV,
      * New Hampshire - NH (see details) - New Jersey - NJ, Ohio - OH."
      Last edited by TheresGabe; 01-31-2013, 04:24 PM.


      Http://www.Youtube.com/TheresGabe

      1991 Festiva L Red: Daily Driver
      1990 Festiva L White: R.I.P.
      1988 Festiva L Silver: R.I.P.
      1991 Festiva L Red B6T: R.I.P.
      1989 Festiva L White: R.I.P.
      1995 Aspire 2-door White: R.I.P.
      1995 Aspire 4-door Red: R.I.P.

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      • #4
        Re: E15 Gasoline

        Well im pissed, id like to not damage my engine. wtf is wrong with our government.

        Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk 2

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        • #5
          Not to mention the effects it's having on agriculture by jacking up the price of corn. Dumb.


          Http://www.Youtube.com/TheresGabe

          1991 Festiva L Red: Daily Driver
          1990 Festiva L White: R.I.P.
          1988 Festiva L Silver: R.I.P.
          1991 Festiva L Red B6T: R.I.P.
          1989 Festiva L White: R.I.P.
          1995 Aspire 2-door White: R.I.P.
          1995 Aspire 4-door Red: R.I.P.

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          • #6
            Never once have i seen a problem with ethanol gumming up fuel lines or taking out fuel pumps. Such a pile of crap. Perfect opportunity for americans to do something about all of the foreign oil we burn and all it does is gets bashed. Idk what kind of ethanol you guys are burning but here in SD, Ive never once had a vehicle break down strictly because of ethanol.
            07 Chevy 1500. 5.3 E85
            91 Festiva DD B6, M5, AC, PS
            90 Festiva figure 8 racer
            90 Mustang LX, LSX, 4L80. AFONOMO

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            • #7
              i just mix my fuels, filling 3/4 with the Ebased fuel and mix about 1/4 of regular tank to stop any issues
              Ford Festiva 1991 WA Model (5 Door)
              Nicknamed the car 'The Chiva' (Chilli Festiva)

              Avg Economy:
              Highway - 7.32L/100km
              City - yet to be determined.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by schreurs1 View Post
                Never once have i seen a problem with ethanol gumming up fuel lines or taking out fuel pumps. Such a pile of crap. Perfect opportunity for americans to do something about all of the foreign oil we burn and all it does is gets bashed. Idk what kind of ethanol you guys are burning but here in SD, Ive never once had a vehicle break down strictly because of ethanol.
                Small changes cause incrementally small effects. First off; shelf life of Blend gas is about 6 months. You'd never notice something this unless you seasonally stored your expensive Ferrari with a full tank of fuel or you failed to drain the gas out of your lawnmower, chainsaw, snowblower. Ethanol is a powerful solvent as well. First time out with this stuff in an older car and you'll know it. Older carburetor engines are not tuned for Blend gas and consequently more difficult to start. The Feds really shouldn't be pushing this stuff down our throats, especially on unknowing folks that run older equipment.
                I ran my EFI Festy on non-Ethanol gas during a cold snap last week and it started 'like the good old days', which was not so during cold snaps when I was running E10. If I'm forced to buy into E15 I'll likely be forced into buying a newer car.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by schreurs1 View Post
                  Never once have i seen a problem with ethanol gumming up fuel lines or taking out fuel pumps. Such a pile of crap. Perfect opportunity for americans to do something about all of the foreign oil we burn and all it does is gets bashed. Idk what kind of ethanol you guys are burning but here in SD, Ive never once had a vehicle break down strictly because of ethanol.
                  I note you are from SD, strange you never had any problem with crapoline (Ethanol contaminated gasoline), you think that's because SD benefits from putting ethanol in the gasoline supply?
                  Or you just can't recognize a fuel related failure?
                  No, this isn't a "perfect opportunity" it's and opportunity for corn growing states to work with companies that produce ethanol to sell the rest of us a poorly performing fuel at the same or higher price than real gasoline.
                  A perfect opportunity would have been to force MPG increases and or reduce speed limits.
                  But no one but the consumer would have benefited from that!
                  We don't have a choice of "what kind of ethanol we are burning" it's all contaminated with it.
                  '93 Blue 5spd 230K(down for clutch and overall maintanence)
                  '93 White B6 swap thanks to Skeeters Keeper
                  '92 Aqua parts Car
                  '93 Turquoise 5spd 137K
                  '90 White LX Thanks to FB71

                  "Your God of repentance will not save you.
                  Your holy ghost will not save you.
                  Your God plutonium will not save you.
                  In fact...
                  ...You will not be saved!"

                  Prince of Darkness -1987

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                  • #10
                    Ethanol's damage is well documented and easily identifiable. This damage has become about 10% of our repair business. The small engine shop down the street cannot keep up with the additional repairs, and they are much more expensive, automotive failures are generally somewhat under a grand, small engines are around 2 grand for a seized engine.
                    Once again the people are guinea pigs for a very small special interest group. Not saying ethanol is a bad idea but it is not ready as a fuel to replace or supplement gasoline and diesel. It should be able to compete market wise on its own merit . It needs to cost the same per mile. It needs to be changed so that the fuel stores competitively, does not cause lubrication failures , does not corrode and does not chemically attack fuel system components such as fuel pumps. And most of all the fuel needs to be a standard across the industry.

                    Ethanol as a fuel or a supplement has utterly failed to meet the populations expectations on everyone of those points leaving only small interest groups happy.

                    Politics...
                    Reflex paint by Langeman...Lifted...Tow Rig

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                    • #11
                      I've ran E10 in everything since the 1980's. I can't say I've ever had a fuel related issue either (although E15 could be a different story, IDK). We burned E10 in all the old V8's with good old Holley 4V carbs as well. The higher octane rating allows more protection from spark knock and has always been about 10 cents cheaper per gallon. The MPG is not as good, but it pretty much makes it a wash in terms of cost per mile.
                      Corn prices have been effected lately, but there is more to that then just Ethanol. Since Ethanol is an oil alternative, the market price is dictated by the price of oil. The relatively low price of oil and the high cost of corn, combined with the removal of government subsidies, has caused many of the Ethanol plants to close and go bankrupt. As a result, many jobs directly and indirectly related have been lost. Also, Ethanol plants produce a vast amount of spent distillers grain, which was a large source of cattle feed. It's a complex system, with both good and bad attributes.
                      Brian

                      93L - 5SP, FMS springs, 323 alloys, 1st gen B6, ported head & intake, FMS cam, ported exhaust manifold w/2-1/4" head pipe.
                      04 Mustang GT, 5SP, CAI, TFS plenum, 70mm TB, catted X, Pypes 304SS cat-back, Hurst Billet+ shifter, SCT/Bama tuned....4.10's & cams coming soon
                      62 Galaxie 2D sedan project- 428, 3x2V, 4SP, 3.89TLOC

                      1 wife, 2 kids, 9 dogs, 4 cats......
                      Not enough time or money for any of them

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pu241 View Post
                        I note you are from SD, strange you never had any problem with crapoline (Ethanol contaminated gasoline), you think that's because SD benefits from putting ethanol in the gasoline supply?
                        Or you just can't recognize a fuel related failure?
                        No, this isn't a "perfect opportunity" it's and opportunity for corn growing states to work with companies that produce ethanol to sell the rest of us a poorly performing fuel at the same or higher price than real gasoline.
                        A perfect opportunity would have been to force MPG increases and or reduce speed limits.
                        But no one but the consumer would have benefited from that!
                        We don't have a choice of "what kind of ethanol we are burning" it's all contaminated with it.
                        You are as stern about your opinion as i am about mine, and we will have to learn to co-exist with that. But until America is self sufficient with our own oil, youll find corn in every tank of gas i own.

                        I do agree with you that MPGs should be a focus. The government is so focused on emissions that the mileage has gone by the wayside. A DPF delete on a new diesel pickup yields 3-6 mpgs everytime. I had a 6.4 Ford getting nearly 30mpgs with a delete. The potential is there for all cars to get better MPGs but the government seems to think otherwise. Forced MPGs and lower speed limits would help.
                        07 Chevy 1500. 5.3 E85
                        91 Festiva DD B6, M5, AC, PS
                        90 Festiva figure 8 racer
                        90 Mustang LX, LSX, 4L80. AFONOMO

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                        • #13
                          I am part of the minority that benefits from ethanol but I would like to see it on the market because of its own merit, and we know that it is not ready yet. Unsuspecting consumers should not be unwitting participants or unwilling for that matter until the product has been debugged.

                          Currently fuel injected vehicles are losing fuel pumps far sooner than they did with gasoline only.
                          The impeller end still breaks down and ethanol failures show oxidized impeller and bearing material inside the screen. The expected pump life is a little under half what it should be.

                          We used to see a little varnish in the intakes and throttle body. Now we see an incredible amount of coke and we sell all kinds of cleaner..unheard of on all the early fuel injection systems starting with VW in the 60's....Not that I am complaining, it is easy money and very necessary to keep things running as they should.
                          Reflex paint by Langeman...Lifted...Tow Rig

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