80 mpg diesel Smart Car/environmentalist Sam Neuwirth

[bobstad]

Someone I met here last December kind of cool from Arcata, CA I'd never known of there and got to meet noticing a red KMUD sticker on a ten-speed he has from Arcata's Bicycle Library they rent for $20 every six months; outside a coffeehouse in town for reasons unimaginable now, I'd never bothered to investigate previously.

So probably not really one of those, what would be called a coffee shop if they served typical three squares a day type meals. Sort of a hybrid unusual facility locally: A little faux library without any books, only a few magazines on low tables with more comfortable seating than any library; and socially acceptable stimulant beverages available, some pastries perhaps if memory serves. No folk singers, open mike or any of that sort of a thing. Clean, modern & well maintained; employees professionally cheerful enough, while impatient as anyone is serving the almighty dollar.

Sam is a well known environmentalist, as I've gotten to know a little also a thoughtful person. We've still only seen each other that one time; though a plenty busy person as we exchange emails back and forth, or at least have done so. In one of those he mentioned having gotten a Canadian diesel Smart Car, which due to environmental regulations in this country can't be purchased here.

He says driving that to his city of birth Los Angeles he verified getting 80 miles per gallon; now having me wondering whether "bio" or "regular" so to speak. A new industry where whenever you run out the supply truck finally sneaks up to surprise a person; then you have to guess which, getting denied the other if wrong. Another wait until the next truck happens by; same game again.

Interurban personal travel; as that evolves naturally. Buses flashing by with everyone aboard envious seeing all the fun the car drivers are having hanging out, as that pastime evolves; so still driving the demand of the automobile industry. His return drive from the other LA not Louisiana; seems kinda spacey: One request to visit a house he has in what he called Bellingham's "Columbia District" to open the outdoor faucets when down below freezing here.

[bhazard]

Re: 80 mpg diesel Smart Car/environmentalist Sam Neuwirth

Meh...a VW Polo can get those kinda MPG's and is an actual functional vehicle.

[Bert]

Meh...a VW Polo can get those kinda MPG's and is an actual functional vehicle.

Agreed but where the heck do you get one in n. America? Canadian Smarts were exclusively diesel-powered initially and then for some strange reason (probably fashion, slow acceleration, and the selling price) they entirely switched over to gas versions and the price (diesel engines are expensive) dropped by a goodly margin. These cars have appeal to me (sort of) but they will have to market a 4 seater with manual tranny (all of them are autos) and resurrect the diesel before I am ever seen driving around in one.
The year I was an auto parts courier in my own Festy one of the other drivers dumped his trusty Cavalier and bankrolled a new diesel Smart thinking he'd save a ton of money on fuel expenses. That car spent at least one day per week (under warranty, mind you) being repaired for some one electronic mishap or another. Super-complicated system and that car didn't like the Canadian climate nor the salt. The fellow jettisoned it just before the warranty ran out and cheerfully went back to driving a $500 Cavalier.

[Bert]

Meh...a VW Polo can get those kinda MPG's and is an actual functional vehicle.

And with great fanfare there is now also a VW "Up" available everywhere but n. America. But, as with all VWs and Audis, they are probably expensive to buy parts for and to fix.

[bobstad]

DAFfy enough; no?

Canadian Smarts trannys(all of them are autos)

I'm having to imagine an automatic transmission of a Canadian Smart Car getting 80 mpg with a diesel; being some sort of a complex electronic/computer done deal?

This got my attention; from Wim Goverde's description of the DAF made in his native Holland who'd owned an only recently sold foreign car repair place in Everett, WA when I was in high school seeking help fixing my '57 Rambler Metropolitan who'd been kindly and informative without costing me money.

Those DAF's had the most interesting automatic transmission; based upon some sort of cones transmitting power to either side of the engine drive source from the center of a trans-axle. The way the cones functioned was as an infinitely variable gear ratio which transmitted the power to the wheels by some sort of direct drive off their central power source; that was able to intersect the cones from their widest to narrowest aspects.

I think Wim explained this as something which the low-powered DAF was suited for; who'd driven a late model Mercury Cougar, perhaps a '68 or '69-with his own private airplane too. Someone originally out of Rotterdam; where he'd trained as a mechanic.

A younger fellow between Wim and myself a high school student, in age; worked there as the other of the two mechanics in the shop, the owner and a friendly youthful Polish man, made more memorable as their work stations also included mounted on a bench a large hand vice made in Poland-looking an excellent high quality piece of machinery.

During my times as my high school's one "out" commie...to my knowledge; at least: One friend accomplishing a great deal staying out of the military while the war in Vietnam was current and the lottery system for draftees intact, with a zero point nine grade point average-highest score our school year class of '69 on the National Merit Scholarship Test; also flunking the Army intelligence test...

[Bert]

DAF was a Dutch company and invented the constantly variable transmission. Two cone-shaped gears. Great idea and the first such featured cars (in the 60s) were called the 'Daffodil". Shortcomings to this stunt are belts or chains and Nissan (despite jumping in feet first with this technology) have so far not been able to make a durable/reliable version of it. The concept is great. But then so was the Wankel rotary.

[bobstad]

DAFt know more...

of the DAF made in his native Holland Those DAF's had the most interesting automatic transmission; based upon some sort of cones transmitting power to either side of the engine drive source from the center of a trans-axle. The way the cones functioned was as an infinitely variable gear ratio which transmitted the power to the wheels by some sort of direct drive off their central power source; that was able to intersect the cones from their widest to narrowest aspects.

I sort of wished someone more knowledgeable would comment about the DAF and their transmissions; I must've discouraged with a little too much history and/or propaganda? I think those cars were marketed during the fifties; rather than post war cars, like some German micro-cars valuable to collectors.

I think the DAF transmission operated a little like a centrifugal clutch; which once up to certain speed not very faster than an idle was a solid, direct drive like a manual transmission losing nothing of energy or torque-even sophisticated automatic transmissions used to at least, give up a little of. Yet with the demands of both engine and road speed; always an ever changing drive ratio between motor and wheels. With very few actual moving parts.

Thus in essence at least, a near perfect transmission; while as explained to me, applicable only with such a marginally powerful car.

[Bert]

I sort of wished someone more knowledgeable would comment about the DAF and their transmissions; I must've discouraged with a little too much history and/or propaganda? I think those cars were marketed during the fifties; rather than post war cars, like some German micro-cars valuable to collectors.

I think the DAF transmission operated a little like a centrifugal clutch; which once up to certain speed not very faster than an idle was a solid, direct drive like a manual transmission losing nothing of energy or torque-even sophisticated automatic transmissions used to at least, give up a little of. Yet with the demands of both engine and road speed; always an ever changing drive ratio between motor and wheels. With very few actual moving parts.

Thus in essence at least, a near perfect transmission; while as explained to me, applicable only with such a marginally powerful car.

Not being entirely knowledgeable about these transmissions (although I am a Dutchman and did experience the 'exhilaration' of being an unimpressed passenger in a DAF CVT "Daffodil" in Europe in the late 60s) I can only say they look great on paper. Snowmobiles use a very similar principle (expanding pulleys) and the HP off them has been escalating steadily over the past 40 years. CVT does work, but then again so does a Wankel rotary engine. My newly-retired brother-in-law pulled a small travel trailer to Florida this year in his 3 year old Nissan Murano and promptly blew the tranny (a CVT). The repair cost $5G and/so he's currently shopping for something else. I think that gears that are not directly and firmly connected are problematic for any designer/manufacturer.

[bobstad]

DAF was a Dutch company and invented the constantly variable transmission. Two cone-shaped gears. Great idea and the first such featured cars (in the 60s) were called the 'Daffodil". Shortcomings to this stunt are belts or chains and Nissan (despite jumping in feet first with this technology) have so far not been able to make a durable/reliable version of it. The concept is great. But then so was the Wankel rotary.

Opps! Sorry Bert, I'd missed your post; though a good chance to share one of my favorite palindromes "Lid off a daffodil" the well known third world military tyrant; or something like that, no?

I think that Dutchman from Rotterdam was a very good early influence in my life as a man other than my father; Wim Goverde' the mechanic who told me of the DAF and those transmissions, so memorably.

There is a fantastic book written by someone who became chairman of the board of General Electric; who'd grown up Jewish in I think Holland yet often a familiar of Nazi officers; having to do with his father being a mechanic dealing with taxis. The Nazis had somehow with concern for the youth hustled him out of Europe who ended up with General Chenault as a mechanic for his fighter planes in China I think were P-38s; the one's with the shark's grin painted below their motors, behind the propellers in the very nose of the airplanes.

After the war he and his new bride drove an army jeep all the way from Malaysia to Israel; who then had worked knocking around Hollywood awhile, installing a pipe organ in Boris Karloff's limousine at one point-I think goes this person's story whose name I don't remember.

I remember I read that book at about the same time as another about the last Nazi to be captured in America, who'd not been prosecuted for anything since a soldier not a party functionary, who'd escaped from a prisoner of war camp for Germans in the United States; for decades I think after the war maintaining himself as a professional tennis player and a friend for instance of actor Lloyd Bridges. Finally his past caught up with him, I think only further adding to his stature as a human being.

Well, neither too typical as human beings; if heartening perhaps for some, including myself at one point. Those were both library books, I remember of them too; though read an awfully long time ago now. I don't know what the tennis guy ended up doing; so perhaps still fairly young when the book got written?

[Movin]

So far I think the snowmobile clutches are more reliable, even on the arctic cat with the dealer flashed engine control module that produces 320 HP, a thrilling ride to be certain with out any substantial losses in fuel economy than the miserable car manufacturers results so far with the CVT . Most snowmobile clutches are easy to repair and are tunable on the trail if needed, and they can be purchased new for a few hundred dollars..not thousands!

[Bert]

So far I think the snowmobile clutches are more reliable, even on the arctic cat with the dealer flashed engine control module that produces 320 HP, a thrilling ride to be certain with out any substantial losses in fuel economy than the miserable car manufacturers results so far with the CVT . Most snowmobile clutches are easy to repair and are tunable on the trail if needed, and they can be purchased new for a few hundred dollars..not thousands!

Sounds about right! Somehow I don't think that snowmobile manufacturers are concerned about CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) and will happily produce anything that works for them. Maybe one day we'll see a rocket-assist CVT Rotary engine in a Ski-Doo.

[bobstad]

Sounds about right! Somehow I don't think that snowmobile manufacturers are concerned about CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) and will happily produce anything that works for them. Maybe one day we'll see a rocket-assist CVT Rotary engine in a Ski-Doo.

While I'm wondering what the Seaview can come up with next; KVOS-12's Sunday morning opener, with Admiral Nelson & crew...

[Tommychu]

I'm having to imagine an automatic transmission of a Canadian Smart Car getting 80 mpg with a diesel; being some sort of a complex electronic/computer done deal?

It's not an automatic in the traditional sense, it's more of an electronically automated manual. Not entirely unlike the twin-clutch ultra fancy 'flappy paddle' boxes you get in most exotic sports cars- although mechanically speaking a closer analogy would be the Eaton UltraShift for heavy trucks. Both of which are painful to drive due to the long shift delay, though the Eaton having closer gear ratios has less of a delay while the computer synchronizes the mainshaft for the next gear.

[Bert]

It's not an automatic in the traditional sense, it's more of an electronically automated manual. Not entirely unlike the twin-clutch ultra fancy 'flappy paddle' boxes you get in most exotic sports cars- although mechanically speaking a closer analogy would be the Eaton UltraShift for heavy trucks. Both of which are painful to drive due to the long shift delay, though the Eaton having closer gear ratios has less of a delay while the computer synchronizes the mainshaft for the next gear.

Moot point. If I am unable to 'jumpstart' a supposedly manual tranny then it becomes just another automatic as far as I'm concerned. I remember a buddy of mine, 40 years ago, getting supremely hot and bothered enough to drive his 'freebie' Renault to the dump only because it had an electric-operated auto tranny. If the battery was low the GD car wouldn't even shift out of neutral!

Many of us become manual tranny fans by virtue of having been stuck somewhere with dead batteries, failed starters or solenoids, on auto trannys. Manuals provide some options to get you home; push, tow or park on a hill. I hate being left outright helpless.

[Movin]

The trouble with a smart car is that it was not first designed for economy and simplicity. It was designed to park where other cars could not park.