MPGs run, Aspire SE

[mikeyjd]

use of a anti-fowl spacer (for spark plugs) is the common way to do this.

So all it takes in an anti-fowl adapter to space between the manifold and the sensor? Do you have a picture by chance? I just want to make sure I'm getting the right visual here

[FestYboy]

use of a anti-fowl spacer (for spark plugs) is the common way to do this.

[mikeyjd]

Forcing the computer to bounce rich seems to help mileage as opposed to bouncing rich-lean or always trying to lean the mix. All of that happens inside of the computers all is okay window. If you get to where you will do some good, you will get an occasional check engine light. Spacing the o2 out a half inch or so will nudge the mixture leaner without the computer knowing about it.

can you post a picture or video on how you spaced your o2 sensor? I don't wouldn't want to ruin/hurt anything.

[Movin]

Forcing the computer to bounce rich seems to help mileage as opposed to bouncing rich-lean or always trying to lean the mix. All of that happens inside of the computers all is okay window. If you get to where you will do some good, you will get an occasional check engine light. Spacing the o2 out a half inch or so will nudge the mixture leaner without the computer knowing about it.

[mikeyjd]

Yeah, I'm wondering if dropping the fuel pressure to 32 will give better mileage, because of less fuel entering. Similar to putting a smaller main jet in a carb. This might be more feasible now that the injectors are going to output a clean spray pattern.

Don't get me wrong I don't think it was a waste of money just because you might not have seen results. I think "knowing" that your injectors are operating optimally is easily worth the price of getting them balanced. I'm betting the results will show up when the fpr is implemented

[TominMO]

I wonder what would happen if you swapped in some low flow rate ev14 injectors, or something with better atomization charachteristics? You have an adjustable FPR, so surely you could use that to trim the fuel injection? You know that for a $7k car off the showroom floor nobody put a whole lot of thought into the best atomization of petrol.

Yeah, I'm wondering if dropping the fuel pressure to 32 will give better mileage, because of less fuel entering. Similar to putting a smaller main jet in a carb. This might be more feasible now that the injectors are going to output a clean spray pattern.

[zoom zoom]

I wonder what would happen if you swapped in some low flow rate ev14 injectors, or something with better atomization charachteristics? You have an adjustable FPR, so surely you could use that to trim the fuel injection? You know that for a $7k car off the showroom floor nobody put a whole lot of thought into the best atomization of petrol.

[Movin]

A reman injector is some new parts on a injector that will spray fuel with in manufacturers specs when done . Used injectors can fall anywhere. Matts injectors not only produce a finely atomized spray, they also pop at a very specific pressure and deliver matched volumes while doing so. Old stock can be close or horrible, its a crap shoot. To show a specific gain is impossible. To be as tight to specs as possible is what Matt delivers. Use his product for that purpose, not a specific gain.

[mikeyjd]

It seems that the only reason to see an increase from balanced injectors would be if there was something wrong with one of more of them. Obviously balancing them insures against problems there, but if you already had well balanced injectors you would have to expect no difference.

[rmoltis]

Gotch'ya

[TominMO]

I think the service is more geared for power than mpgs.

Having just made my own test, I have to agree. It's just that Matt had a customer report a 2-3 MPG improvement, which I was hoping for and would love to have seen--but didn't. If this customer is a board member, I hope he will do some actual rigorous testing and either confirm what he reported or disavow it, just so we have some valid input from him. But it's probably too late now, he has already altered the injectors, so we can't get a "before" test unless he installs some stock unimproved injectors.

[TominMO]

Here is some B3 Festy MPG testing data I extracted from an earlier post. These were short runs of about 86 miles, but you can see how consistent they are, with the only variable being vehicle speed (i.e. RPM and wind resistance factors). Stock B3 motor with 155/80x13 tires, and hatch spoiler.

....MPH......MPG
A. 60.........52.1
B. 55.........58.5
C. 45.........62.5

When I put an larger airdam on the front of my B6 Festy, mileage went up from 41.9 to 45.0 @ 60 MPH, a 7% improvement.

A 7% improvement via the airdam @ 60 MPH with the B3/skinny tires should give about 55.7 MPG. At 55 MPH you could expect perhaps 62.6 MPG, or perhaps a little less due to less air pressure. At 45 MPH I would expect little or no improvement, as aerodynamic factors become less important.

[rmoltis]

I think the service is more geared for power than mpgs.

Making sure each cylinder is filled with exactly the same fuel and air mixture.

Not to mention after you install the adjustable fuel pressure regulator and turn it up a few lbs.
Your clean injectors will make a more atomized fuel spray as opposed to more of a squirt.

Balancing the forces created between each piston would help the engine run smoother.

The more balanced the forces the smoother the accelleration.

Less of one cylinder trying to compensate for the lack of energy created in the others.

That's just my opinion though.

[jason_]

I can't see any reason there'd be no gain with balanced injectors not from a few tanks, but several tanks.

having a crankshaft fight a load evenly millions of times in synch with other injectors, there's a gain, small I'm sure, so measurable over a much more tremendous amount.

look how much a dead plug whacks power? a v8 is bearable, but on a 4 banger easily cuts torque in half.

having everything equal, and as equal can be, can only be a plus.



Sent from my rooted HTC Supersonic using Tapatalk 2 Pro

[TominMO]

If the front air dam really adds 3-5 mpg (your showing 10 so I'm deducting some because I know all aeromodders lie about mpgs like I do about fish) I think I could probably live with myself and deal with people making fun of the lawn edging screwed to my front bumper. Would you say that has been the most signifigant improvement so far?

Yes, the front airdam was the most important mod so far. I would say up to 8 MPG, because when I tested the car originally on a road trip (with no airdam), I was driving 55 and got 45 MPG. A little apples-and-oranges estimation here; i.e. maybe at 60 instead of 55 I would have gotten 43 or so.

See below. I am now discounting tests B and D as unreliable. Tests F and G interest me because they have the best results. But many people won't want to remove wipers and mirrors, or have a dorky kammback juryrigged to their car. Understandably.

Aspire SE mileage testing synopsis
(All tests done at 60 MPH except the first one)
....MPG.......Description
A. 45.0.......stock; 185/70x13 tires; 55 MPH; approx 250 miles
B. 55.0.......small front air dam, same tires; 100 miles
C. 52.7.......larger air dam, side/rear wheel skirting, 165/80x15 front tires on steelies; 155/80x13 snows on rear; 100 miles
D. 59.7.......larger air dam, side/rear wheel skirting, 185/70x13s on front, 155/80x13 snows on rear; 100 miles
E. 51.3.......larger air dam, side/rear wheel skirting, 155/80x13 snows all around; 100 miles
F. 54.0.......as above but with new 155/80x13 Kumhos @44PSI, removed wipers and mirrors; 243 miles
G. 53.3.......Kumho tires, reinstalled wipers/mirrors, removed all side skirting and added kammback; 176 miles
H. 51.2.......kammback removed, back to front airdam only, cleaned and balanced injectors; 220 miles

Some further thoughts:
1. Matt's Festy customer who reported a 2-3 MPG gain with the cleaned injectors may not have done a rigorous before-and-after test. I strongly suspect this. He may have unconsciously cooked the results by driving with a lighter foot, knowing he was testing the injectors.
2. It may be that the real benefit to injector cleaning is for high-performance motors at higher RPMs. Our little stock motors, driven over a long distance at 2600ish RPM, do not in my experience seem to show any improvement. That being said, I am still glad I did it because inquiring minds want to know, mine included, and will still do it for my B6 Festy, which I will have Matt do some work on in the future--for HP gains, not MPGs.

I would like input on these thoughts from experienced engine guys, especially Matt.