Insulation above the roof, under a tarp? Better preventing outdoor condensation?

[bobstad]

I've covered my '91 Festiva with a good grey woven plastic 10' x 12' tarp which reaches below the door and side windows on each side, and down past the wipers onto the hood in the front and a ways down the back window in the rear.

The idea is the car, though still running fine, needs some work I'm not ready to commence; and feel the car may have to sit until the spring or summer, before I want to get serious fixing what ails.

I also have several sleeping bag closed cell foam ground pads, made for sleeping comfortably on snow and ice; left over from insulating the inner walls of a '75 Chevy half-ton panel van I'd been fixing up to live out of: So am wondering, if I slipped two or three of these under the tarp covering the Festiva, on the roof of the car; if those would help prevent condensation from heavy rains, in the interior of the car?

I'll probably make the experiment no matter what anyone says, since nothing to lose unless someone stole the ground pads; I'd not much like, since hard if not impossible to replace because camping technology has advanced since my purchase, I'd eventually like to insulate the Festiva with.

I've already found there are condensation problems in the Festiva; from parking outside all the time here in the maritime northwest, on Puget Sound in Bellingham, WA.

A few weeks ago, getting the tarp over the car, I had to pull out lots of things starting to show signs of rust from condensation; for instance the fine, once a Ford Courier pick-up wheel jack, I've replaced the less adequate factory jack with, etc.

[F3BZ]

i'd rather be back in the drizzle in port townsend than the snow here. i don't have an answer but i also have a similar problem with cars parked outside and it has to do with the underside components. i wonder if a car rots less parked on dirt or gravel or concrete and if a cover is used, should it finish at the door sill height to allow air circulation underneath?

[bobstad]

RUST NEVER SLEEPS

I had the experience of living under a roof once over a livery stable in Eureka, CA converted to the back bedroom of an apartment of 450 square feet. This was like being inside a tent whenever there was a heavy rain, which communicated the cold immediately to the inside of the room; since only the composite roofing paper, over the nearly flat roof made of the wood, on vertical stringers of two by fours, with the ceiling below that.

When remodeled so I would qualify for HUD section 8 rent assistance, the owners had a new metal corrugated roof placed on vertical two by six stringers, right on top the old roof; thus making for a large space of dead air above the original roof.

I missed the incredible loud cacophony, in effect a symphony of sorts during a heavy rain-the new roof made into a barely audible lullaby; though the room was also suddenly easy to heat and without that feeling of being in a tent, with the cold as much as out of doors or worse since the temperature of the rain which was falling, whenever there was plenty of rain.

Thus, my guess is that either insulation and/or dead air, between the tarp and the top of the roof of the Festiva; should help a great deal in preventing the bad condensation problems the car has been having the past five winters, going into the sixth of those now here in Bellingham near Canada on Puget Sound.

I deeply regret having given away one of those thirty to forty dollar plug-in electric oil radiator heaters, which would've been great to occasionally warm up the interior of the Festiva all the past five years, parked right in front of the door to my apartment.

Fortunately the paint job inside the car is still intact, so no rust showing anywhere I can see inside the car; while probably easy to imagine hidden places like the inside of the doors at the bottom below the windows, are certainly getting vulnerable.

I've still got all the Aspire brake-swap front end parts stowed under and behind the front seats, which will be vulnerable to rust; so have to think that these aren't going to be particularly fragile in that respect.

I've already swapped the rear axle for the one off of a '97 automatic transmission Aspire, and have all the front end parts off of that same Aspire except the front anti-sway bar, I forgot to grab when getting the rest of the parts off the wrecking yard '97; so have another Aspire anti-sway bar from a manual transmission Aspire instead, year I think a '96 I'm not quite sure of anymore-though a part number still visible enough, this could perhaps be figured out?

Anyway, since the anti-sway bar is stored inside my apartment; well off the subject of condensation inside the car.

I'll tell folks one thing, that insulating the inner walls of the '75 Chevy panel van I slept in while homeless as a "vehicular resident" in the east bay during the mid '90s, made a vast difference. With the bare metal walls during the winters, this was worse than sleeping in the rain; since my breath caused constant condensation, always dripping on me whenever the weather was even cool, or worse when colder.

I'd previously used identical closed cell foam sleeping bag ground pad material, to insulate the ceiling of the '66 VW "square-back" sedan I mostly lived out of a dozen years from '82-'94; which also had a very positive, dramatic effect, in eliminating the otherwise bad condensation and dripping problems.

I didn't do that until after the factory headliner had rotted and fallen away, which previously had seemed to limit the problems of condensation; though a person wonders if the deterioration of that may've been due to condensation on the bare metal of the inner roof, hastening the breakdown of the original fabric of the headliner?

If, as I suspect, the Festiva factory headliner, lacks significant insulation value; then putting a layer of the closed cell sleeping bag ground pads I have on the roof, could help reduce condensation inside the car.

Though I'm still wondering about what degree of influence the weather has, on making moisture in the air condense on the inner surfaces of anything inside? Apparently quite a bit; judging by the way things have already seemed to start to rust.

Which of course will continue if begun to rust, any rust already engendered, until some abatement is done; no matter what the future, of my efforts at arresting the condensation: Though prevention as much as possible, will help to reduce or arrest; further potentials for rust elsewhere.

[bobstad]

frosting, by the layers; let them eat cake...ouch!!!

i'd rather be back in the drizzle in port townsend than the snow here. i don't have an answer but i also have a similar problem with cars parked outside and it has to do with the underside components. i wonder if a car rots less parked on dirt or gravel or concrete and if a cover is used, should it finish at the door sill height to allow air circulation underneath?

I'm thinking of the "layers" people in the maritime Pacific northwest always consider dressing themselves?*

If you've a vehicle parked where cardboard could be spread underneath, perhaps this would act like a cotton layer, absorbing moisture? And, if so; perhaps another layer like wool is used inside of cotton, to wick moisture away from a person's body, with a net garment against the skin.

Or, say place a layer of plastic under the cardboard too, to keep the cardboard from absorbing moisture from beneath.

I guess first a person would want to know how much moisture really communicates from below while a vehicle is stationary; then beyond that as you've wondered, depending upon what sort of surface the vehicle is parked over?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a cover which would finish at door sill height; though imagine something actually attached to the vehicle from underneath, intact even while being driven?

Thinking further, if a person were able to duct tape a skirt of plastic sheeting like inexpensive visqueen, all around a vehicle being stored for some time in one place; say particularly before inclement weather began in the fall, this could be a huge potential asset in keeping dry the whole environment underneath the vehicle.

Just make sure this also isn't a good environment for critters, if that could be a problem; is one notion?

*Though a native of Washington state, I've lived half my adult life and all my loves nearly, in California; so as far as I'm concerned "layers are for cakes!!!" Oh well.

[bobstad]

I'm thinking of the "layers" people in the maritime Pacific northwest...I've lived half my adult life and all my loves nearly, in California; so as far as I'm concerned "layers are for cakes!!!" Oh well.

Hey, a little towards a bit of fibbing; about the home front, & amores...

[Bert]

The reason canvas tarps still exist (and numerous newer hi-tech fabrics such as Gore-Tex) is they "breathe". Water is shed directly but water vapour travels right through. You don't get condensation build up under a canvas (or Egyptian cotton etc) tarp.
At the end of the war my mother crafted a light-weight cyclist/hiker tent from an abandoned parachute (not far from Nijmegen bridge) and that set up did not even require a fly. Whereas modern nylon or polyester tents sure do!

[bobstad]

The reason canvas tarps still exist (and numerous newer hi-tech fabrics such as Gore-Tex) is they "breathe". Water is shed directly but water vapour travels right through. You don't get condensation build up under a canvas (or Egyptian cotton etc) tarp.
At the end of the war my mother crafted a light-weight cyclist/hiker tent from an abandoned parachute (not far from Nijmegen bridge) and that set up did not even require a fly. Whereas modern nylon or polyester tents sure do!

Definitely, the next break in the weather-currently below twenty Fahrenheit for highs, on crystal clear if windy days; I'm going to both disconnect the battery, and place those closed cell foam pads between the plastic tarp and the roof of the car.

The paint job is getting worn enough, I'm thinking condensation between the tarp and the roof; could start a rust problem there?

The nice lady upstairs my age I've gotten a nice little low-key crush going with, after giving her my Armstrong student model 104 flute, who got kicked out of her school band since she couldn't read music, when they caught her playing by ear; I've been talking with beside our cars parked next to each other, almost six years: Has herself a white 289 '65 Galaxie she got for $250 in '88, she has overhauled the motor on herself-also a talented horsewoman, in her family since new; which now has elements of rusty color tones, starting to bleed through the factory paint on the roof.

She works frequently to exhaustion, at a low-paid job in a large local residential facility for Alzheimer's patients: Yet another, nearly entirely unsung member of the proletariat; suffering the depredations of capitalist imperialism.