water injection, for better fuel economy?

[jawbraeka]

There is a system I mention from time to time that I get little to no feedback on, in regards to hho systems.. So technically instead of cooling the engine whilst driving with water injection, basically, splitting hydrogen from water and having it enter via the intake or as close to the cylinders to increase economy and also maintain emissions, if not reduce them to 0 and also help maintain the health of the engine by allowing a better burn of the fuel as well as definitely less chance of carbon build up due to the more efficient burn of fuel..

There are numerous sites on the web all claiming different amounts in percent of fuel savings on your engine, but I figure this comes under a few categories such as how economical a driver you are (ie, are you conservative, a race driver or hypermiler).

The systems I recommend are from a guy called Tan Kusuma (located on Facebook at fordfestiva.com and HHO INDONESIA and also here in the forums too).. He designs cells that are fairly efficient for an engine of varying sizes ranging from 600cc and upto several litres in capacity).

There is also Daniel Donatelli on FB who actually sells EFI conversion kits too..

One other person who I have started talking too is an installer called Gavan Knox.. He is also found on Facebook. He is also an installer of these systems and is selling setups installed and claims to be able to install them without tweaking the ecu.. He is in Perth Australia and is also in talks with a near billionaire about introducing these systems into the good ol' USA too and what I've been also informed of is that there is a rebate on your registration too in the US if you have a hho system installed on your car.

Sent from the depths of hell.

[sketchman]

I've experimented with HHO. A simple wet cell. It drew a lot of current, but it did not help fuel economy. But then I just threw it on there. I didn't modify anything.

From what I know about them, I'd rather pursue water injection. I'd love to someday have a system that used no coolant because it took advantage of Smokey Yunick's hot vapor idea and then used water injection to further balance what's going on in the CC during combustion. Just imagine if instead of leeching off heat through the pistons, cylinder walls, and head you could have a perfectly balanced reaction going on inside the CC that used both the exothermic reaction of gas/oxygen and the endothermic reaction of water vapor expanding to have a heat neutral (adiabatic) expansion.

It would be sweeeeeet.

PS: I may have taken some leeway with those terms (endothermic and exothermic). They may be exclusively pertaining to a chemical reaction type and water vapor expanding is just a change in state. It's still water. But that's the simplest way I could think of saying it.

[jawbraeka]

I've experimented with HHO. A simple wet cell. It drew a lot of current, but it did not help fuel economy. But then I just threw it on there. I didn't modify anything.

From what I know about them, I'd rather pursue water injection. I'd love to someday have a system that used no coolant because it took advantage of Smokey Yunick's hot vapor idea and then used water injection to further balance what's going on in the CC during combustion. Just imagine if instead of leeching off heat through the pistons, cylinder walls, and head you could have a perfectly balanced reaction going on inside the CC that used both the exothermic reaction of gas/oxygen and the endothermic reaction of water vapor expanding to have a heat neutral (adiabatic) expansion.

It would be sweeeeeet.

You need to tune it and also tweak ECU not to readjust fuel otherwise your economy will be negible and as you found out lose power via alternator

Have a chat to Gavan if you're on Fb


Sent from the depths of hell.

[bhearts]

High compression is by far the best way to take advantage of water injection. Jumping from 8.5cr to 12cr would not be possible on even premium gasoline. So you'd have to find a better way for knock suppression. So full time progressive water injection is the answer. I think that at that level of compression you could actually gain power from the expansion of the steam.

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[sketchman]

The water methanol injection was actually sprayed into the turbo compressor inlet with 4 fuel injectors at a 3 bar constant pressure It was controlled by the engine management. This system worked awesome and it increased the output of the compressor dramatically.

What do you think about doing this with winter mix wiper fluid and an RV water pump? Setup the right size injectors to get your desired ratio based on the fuel injectors used, and just piggy-back the stock injector wiring to run the "water" parallel with the fuel. And you could use an FPR to have fine tuning of the ratio.

[bhearts]

Pulse duration. At 20 percent injector duty cycle, it would be near impossible to evenly distribute your water mix to all cylinders.

[sketchman]

Huh?

If you're injecting pre-turbo it should be good and mixed, and then distribute evenly.

[bhearts]

Huh?

If you're injecting pre-turbo it should be good and mixed.

Fuel injectors will rust shut. Diaphragm pumps pulsates.
The only functional way to run it is with typical water methanol injectors, and duty cycle controlling your rv pump.

[sketchman]

Hmm, well Charlie was saying it worked, but then I guess he didn't mention how long, and it was not with an RV pump.

I did find a mention of using one of those pumps for it, but not with fuel injectors. Said it worked well.

Some quick googling says the injectors should be OK. Time would tell, though.

[bhearts]

Zephthechef ran water meth through his primary fuel injectors on his Buick project for while. So he had computer control and standard styled gasoline fuel pumps, and stainless steel injectors. The big problem with diaphragm pumps and fuel injectors is that one cylinder could see a high psi rail pressure and another cylinder would see a low pressure. Just depending on pump rpm vs engine rpm. It would change throughout the rpm band. Like walking vs running and a strobe light

[sketchman]

Hmm. I see.

Well EFI fuel pumps are cheap too. How did he like the setup?

[bhearts]

It idled fine once warm. But efi pumps are cooled by having fuel run through them. I even think the brushes/ coils are exposed to fuel, although I could be wrong. They will rust shut quickly also. Just not made for water. Hence the heavy usage of isoheat in the fuel tank during the winter.

[bhearts]

Supposedly, you could pressurized water methanol tank, via compressed air in a paint ball sized co2 tank. Could regulate it to any pressure you could ever want. Then you wouldn't have to worry about a pump

[sketchman]

I kinda thought about that but with an air pump and tank connected to the water tank. Regulate the air pump and tank for 100psi and the water tank at whatever psi you want, and it would maintain it automatically.

Because when the container doubles size the pressure gets cut in half, so just a pressurized tank would have to be either very large, or VERY highly pressurized to keep pressure once the water tank was getting empty.

[Advancedynamix]

The land speed engine used a hilborn style gear pump.
I strongly discourage using windshield fluid in a methanol injection system. Nowadays, it's not easy to find methanol based washer fluid anyway, and the stuff you get is a low percentage of methanol and has soaps and die in it that leave residue inside the engine. Methanol is cheaper than gasoline most of the time. I was paying 2.14 a gallon when I had Tweak. Washer fluid is more expensive and who knows what's in it. I mix my system water meth 50/50.

According to shureflow, their RV pump is internally different from the pumps they sell to Snow, AEM, Devil's own and boostcooler. That is the reason for the huge price difference. The RV pump is a lower pressure pump that is, according to them, not suitable for methanol. I can verify that the housings are different and the operating pressure is different.
There are also 2 versions of the methanol safe pump. I used the higher pressure pump in tweak.