Festiva vs. Fiat 500

[Ombibulous]

Eric Peters (cool guy...Google "Eric Peters auto") frequently laments that small cars these days are overweight due the all the mandated crash resistance required by the feds. I was discussing this with a friend, so we looked up the specs for the Festiva and the 2013 Fiat 500. They're nearly identical in wheelbase and overall length, but the Fiat clocks in at 2,365 pounds, 650 more than the Festy. That's 38% heavier! If a modern car of Festiva size and weight were made using the latest technology, I wouldn't be surprised if it squeezed 60 mpg plus right out of the box.

[bhearts]

Weight doesn't have that much effect on the highway.

[Ombibulous]

I neglected to mention that the two cars have virtually identical fuel mileage numbers (30/38ish), although differences in the way the numbers are calculated between the early nineties and today could skew the comparison in some way.

Weight might not be the primary factor affecting mileage at freeway speeds, but it certainly is worthy of consideration. The guys over at the Ecomodding forum certainly pay attention to it.

[Bert]

Engine technology has improved considerably over the past 20 years. Seems like every car made today achieves 1 hp per cc (which would turn a 1750 lb 1.3 Festy into a barn burner) and with improved fuel economy. I'm running an ordinary 10 year old 5 speed 1.5 DOHC Echo at the moment and that darn thing has way more pep than a Festy and the fuel economy beats the pants off one too!
Ford is experimenting with aluminum (I say experiment because I predict that program ain't gonna last long in the salt belt) and has reduced the weight of their new F150s by 600 lb.

[old yellow]

I would never buy one of them, after I heard who's selling them here in the united states.... I much rather go and buy a used Festiva or Aspire. Even the new top of the line Chevrolet Spark (still cheeper then our base model pontiac vibe) beats the 500 by at least 200% in my books!

[bravekozak]

Looked over a Fiat Abarth today from top to bottom. Mini cluster, so so red stitched leather seats, ugly shift knob, too many badges and decals, not enough cargo caoacity. It does have nice wheels and brakes.

[blake4591]

I have driven one of the 500 sport models. It's an ok car but it has very little interior space, significantly less than a Festiva, and it really fells like a small car inside. Personally if I was looking to buy a new small car it would be a fiesta ST since it's the best performance and most practical for the price range.

The weight really doesn't matter at all at highway speeds which is why things like a roadmaster wagon can do high 20s while a 1500 chevy truck that weighs less with basically the same drive train gets high teens. Most of the weight in new cars is from stuff you don't need (touch screens, heated and powered everything, ect.) but helps the profit margin. A lot of the safety requirements are being met with better engineering (high strength steels, crumple zones, better stampings, ect.).

[Axlander9289]

Engine technology has improved considerably over the past 20 years. Seems like every car made today achieves 1 hp per cc (which would turn a 1750 lb 1.3 Festy into a barn burner) and with improved fuel economy. I'm running an ordinary 10 year old 5 speed 1.5 DOHC Echo at the moment and that darn thing has way more pep than a Festy and the fuel economy beats the pants off one too!
Ford is experimenting with aluminum (I say experiment because I predict that program ain't gonna last long in the salt belt) and has reduced the weight of their new F150s by 600 lb.

You mean 1 HP per cubic inch right? Not that I would complain about having a 2300 horsepower Fusion.

[TominMO]

Engine technology has improved considerably over the past 20 years. Seems like every car made today achieves 1 hp per cc (which would turn a 1750 lb 1.3 Festy into a barn burner) and with improved fuel economy. I'm running an ordinary 10 year old 5 speed 1.5 DOHC Echo at the moment and that darn thing has way more pep than a Festy and the fuel economy beats the pants off one too!
Ford is experimenting with aluminum (I say experiment because I predict that program ain't gonna last long in the salt belt) and has reduced the weight of their new F150s by 600 lb.

If the Echo has more pep it's because of more displacement plus lower gearing to offset the higher weight. What numbers do you have to show it beats the pants off a Festy in fuel economy?

Edit: here's a road test of the Echo. 108HP. EPA estimated MPG to be 34-41:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/toyota-echo-road-test

[bhazard]

I have no doubt an Echo can get as good of mpg as a festiva. They curb between 2000 and 2100 lbs. The weight isnt everything though. Much better aero. More modern engineering and such. Over 100hp in a 2000lb car means its gonna be quicker than a festy easily. Its probably not geared for very high rpm either. They're just plain good cars.

Theres plenty of them on fuelly getting north of 40 mpg.

[TominMO]

I have no doubt an Echo can get as good of mpg as a festiva. They curb between 2000 and 2100 lbs. The weight isnt everything though. Much better aero. More modern engineering and such. Over 100hp in a 2000lb car means its gonna be quicker than a festy easily. Its probably not geared for very high rpm either. They're just plain good cars.

Theres plenty of them on fuelly getting north of 40 mpg.

Yeah, probably true. My CRX Si had 108 HP too, and could get 40 MPG hwy if I kept a light foot. And it weighed 2300 lbs.

[old yellow]

Looked over a Fiat Abarth today from top to bottom. Mini cluster, so so red stitched leather seats, ugly shift knob, too many badges and decals, not enough cargo caoacity. It does have nice wheels and brakes.

don't forget about it having 5 doors and airbags which is another reason I own a Festiva!

[bhazard]

Yeah, probably true. My CRX Si had 108 HP too, and could get 40 MPG hwy if I kept a light foot. And it weighed 2300 lbs.

Yeah and consider it was probably geared way low, for one being a honda, two being an Si, which is a more performance oriented trim. The engine was tuned for performance as well.

[Bert]

If the Echo has more pep it's because of more displacement plus lower gearing to offset the higher weight. What numbers do you have to show it beats the pants off a Festy in fuel economy?

Edit: here's a road test of the Echo. 108HP. EPA estimated MPG to be 34-41:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...echo-road-test

Made the very same run (300 straight miles on paved highway) with both types of cars over the past 10 years Achieved 58 mpg (Imperial gallon) with the Echo this summer and never got beyond 50 in a Festy. These are stratosphere numbers via careful driving but the Echo did this at 60 mph (fuel economy actually dropped at average 55 mph) whereas the Festy had to be driven at much lower speed (50) in order to get those numbers.
DOHC is engine evolution of avoiding extraneous weighty moving parts and increasing revs. By extension this includes performance. 1.5 DOHC in an Echo should really be no different from a 1.3 SOHC in a Festy, but I assure you it very much is!

[bhazard]

Echo has a VVT engine which probably helps a lot. What kinda revs are you turning at 55 or 60?