Cornering speed question

[ryanprins13]

Has anyone tested how fast they could take a corner with stock suspension and tires and then the same corner with good tires and suspension? driving home last night i remembered something that happened to me probably 7 years ago. i was driving my festiva with my brother in the car and just as i was going to exit on a cloverleaf style off-ramp an NSX going very fast swung around me barely squeezing by. i figured i would see how close i could keep up to him on the offramp. i managed to hold 90km/hr (55mph) around the corner but that was all because my 12in front tires were plowing at that speed. He was long gone, it was too many years ago to really guess but the NSX was probably doing almost twice my speed. anyway, i was wondering if i had the advanced suspension stuff and 14in tires at the time if i would have been able to keep up? has anybody done sort of before and after speed tests around corners? cloverleaf on and off ramps are the only things ive really taken fast and 55mph seems to be the limit for my 12in tires. I hadnt done it for several years and figured id try it again once this past summer on what used to be my favorate off ramp for hearing my tires squeal but the amount of body roll made me chicken out before anything happened. i must be getting old, lol or maybe smarter...

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[harpon]

Having driven stock Rabbits and Festys and Aspires for many years- I always felt the chassis was pushing just a bit through fast corners- compared to the others with 13's, but not a big deal because I'm not about fast driving. 80 r sidewalls help. I always wanted 13's on the Festy and if I'd know years back I could have used Geo steelies I probably would have converted- just no big deal-

get the weight down and a smaller car maybe- 12s will be viable again
It's a warming world- and big oil can't hold to big cars forever

[bhazard]

Long story short, yes you would have a much much much better chance with charliespension and good tires.

[errjam]

I have the advance coil over setup, its flat in a corner and wonderful compared to the stock set up I haven't tracked it yet but it almost seems like it wants to 'roll over' the front outside tire in a fast corner I'm afraid that means the opposite rear is coming up and about to snap oversteer.... but I'm not a racecar diver

[FestYboy]

I can't say there's enough weight in the ass end to cause snap oversteer. The fiero on the other hand has all the weight back there and snap oversteer is a constant threat even in slower corners.
All of my experience with Festivas is they'll do one of three things: push with stock tires, rotate with ease and correcting is easy with more throttle, or my favorite... Turn in harder once the rear is allowed to take a set. This only happens once you push past the "limit". The car feels like it's rolling, but all that happens is the outside rear squats and that articulates the rear beam which gives some rear steer action and the front dives into the corner harder.

[errjam]

sounds like I need to push harder!! ,, maybe track day to gain confidence

I can't say there's enough weight in the ass end to cause snap oversteer. The fiero on the other hand has all the weight back there and snap oversteer is a constant threat even in slower corners.
All of my experience with Festivas is they'll do one of three things: push with stock tires, rotate with ease and correcting is easy with more throttle, or my favorite... Turn in harder once the rear is allowed to take a set. This only happens once you push past the "limit". The car feels like it's rolling, but all that happens is the outside rear squats and that articulates the rear beam which gives some rear steer action and the front dives into the corner harder.

[Festiver]

I'm not running the advanced suspension...yet. But just swapping wheels alone is a great help I had 185/70r13s and they would squeal at slow speeds really disappointing but once I swapped to 205/45r16s. I can rail corners with ease at what to me is crazy speeds and it only gets better


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[Festiver]

Oh but don't run 205s or 16s both don't fit lol my point was the low profile of the tire


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[ryanprins13]

I have the advance coil over setup, its flat in a corner and wonderful compared to the stock set up I haven't tracked it yet but it almost seems like it wants to 'roll over' the front outside tire in a fast corner I'm afraid that means the opposite rear is coming up and about to snap oversteer.... but I'm not a racecar diver

I can't say there's enough weight in the ass end to cause snap oversteer. The fiero on the other hand has all the weight back there and snap oversteer is a constant threat even in slower corners.
All of my experience with Festivas is they'll do one of three things: push with stock tires, rotate with ease and correcting is easy with more throttle, or my favorite... Turn in harder once the rear is allowed to take a set. This only happens once you push past the "limit". The car feels like it's rolling, but all that happens is the outside rear squats and that articulates the rear beam which gives some rear steer action and the front dives into the corner harder.

The only way the back end comes around is if you let off the gas. If it starts coming around you floor it. Unless you have more that 63hp maybe. Errjam-what tires do you have? The 14's i think are low profile enough that they dont roll much. If they are more tire pressure may help.
I have seen in older movies several times car chases where the tall tires would fold over till they were almost running on the rim. Chuck norris did it the best with like a ford bronco or something, lol. Im sure when i take a corner hard with 155 r12 tires im running on the sidewall mostly. I have never gone past having the front tires pushing. I always just kept it there and enjoyed the noise they make



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[ryanprins13]

I'm not running the advanced suspension...yet. But just swapping wheels alone is a great help I had 185/70r13s and they would squeal at slow speeds really disappointing but once I swapped to 205/45r16s. I can rail corners with ease at what to me is crazy speeds and it only gets better


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Oh but don't run 205s or 16s both don't fit lol my point was the low profile of the tire


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I did 16's once. Rears didnt clear the struts. Put the 12's back on the rear and drove with 16's on the front. Raced a camaro and beat it. But my car was so slow and i rubbed over bumps. And i dont remember what size these were, but i think 215's and way too tall. Too wide gives you no traction but anything is better than a tall sidewall tire folding over, lol.

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[parrainx]

I don't know how you guys managed to fit 16s on. I placed 15s with 195/50 tire on and it looked like it wouldn't even be able to turn without pushing into the fender.

I just bought my current Festiva less than a month ago, and with 155/80 on stock 12s it would pull to the left and steering was off center when it drove straight; I was ready to do an alignment.

When I put 14x5 with 155/55 (smallest sidewall 14 I could find) on the car there was a huge change in car's handling it even drove straight.

I now run advanced suspension based on Charlie's? (Advancedynamix) recommendations and it's freaking awesome, even though after piecing everything together the suspension now costs more than I paid for the car.

The problem now is that I have no support from stock seats and Festiva's interior is open enough that bracing yourself with your legs doesn't work as well as it does in a Miata. Its a really funny feeling when the car turns, but your body just want to keep its trajectory. Skinny steering wheel doesn't help either.


Sorry I don't have the answer to your question, but I would say you would be able to carry twice the speed with 10000000000000% more confidence than stock everything.

[TominMO]

I don't know how you guys managed to fit 16s on. I placed 15s with 195/50 tire on and it looked like it wouldn't even be able to turn without pushing into the fender.

I just bought my current Festiva less than a month ago, and with 155/80 on stock 12s it would pull to the left and steering was off center when it drove straight; I was ready to do an alignment.

When I put 14x5 with 155/55 (smallest sidewall 14 I could find) on the car there was a huge change in car's handling it even drove straight.

I now run advanced suspension based on Charlie's? (Advancedynamix) recommendations and it's freaking awesome, even though after piecing everything together the suspension now costs more than I paid for the car.

The problem now is that I have no support from stock seats and Festiva's interior is open enough that bracing yourself with your legs doesn't work as well as it does in a Miata. Its a really funny feeling when the car turns, but your body just want to keep its trajectory. Skinny steering wheel doesn't help either.


Sorry I don't have the answer to your question, but I would say you would be able to carry twice the speed with 10000000000000% more confidence than stock everything.

With my half-fast improved suspension and 165/55-14 Economists, my Festiva can do 90 degree turns, right lane to right lane, at 25 or better, no problem.

parrainx, it is easy to swap seats. Here is my seat swap guide on doing so. Lots of 80s - early 90s Mazda seats will work (and early 90s Escort/Aspire too); for extra side bolstering, you probably want to go with Miata. You can mix different seat bottoms with the backs, too; they are independent. You could try to use the seat bottom cover from the same car that you got the back off of, or just go with a high-quality aftermarket cover.

For a thicker wheel, even the cheap slip-on steering wheel covers at any parts store are a big improvement.

[Advancedynamix]

Has anyone tested how fast they could take a corner with stock suspension and tires and then the same corner with good tires and suspension? driving home last night i remembered something that happened to me probably 7 years ago. i was driving my festiva with my brother in the car and just as i was going to exit on a cloverleaf style off-ramp an NSX going very fast swung around me barely squeezing by. i figured i would see how close i could keep up to him on the offramp. i managed to hold 90km/hr (55mph) around the corner but that was all because my 12in front tires were plowing at that speed. He was long gone, it was too many years ago to really guess but the NSX was probably doing almost twice my speed. anyway, i was wondering if i had the advanced suspension stuff and 14in tires at the time if i would have been able to keep up? has anybody done sort of before and after speed tests around corners? cloverleaf on and off ramps are the only things ive really taken fast and 55mph seems to be the limit for my 12in tires. I hadnt done it for several years and figured id try it again once this past summer on what used to be my favorate off ramp for hearing my tires squeal but the amount of body roll made me chicken out before anything happened. i must be getting old, lol or maybe smarter...

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The difference in corner speed depends on the corner and how the car is driven. With a good quality tire and a properly setup suspension, you can easily hang with an NSX around tight corners, if you drive the Festiva correctly.
The Festiva chassis (like all fwd cars) is a momentum chassis. These cars work best when coming into the corner fast. If you come in slow and throttle through the apex like a RWD, it's going to push, however if you come in fast and decel through the apex and throttle out, the car can pivot and rotate controllably. More momentum through the corner means you don't need to accelerate as hard coming out. Better shock valving, lower ride height and less droop in the rear all work to stabilize the chassis. A more stable chassis is easier to manage at any speed.

The stock suspension makes it hard to have the confidence to drive fast into a corner. The body roll and loose valving make the car feel tipsy and unstable. This also removes weight from the inside front wheel, which reduces the amount of control you have with the throttle. With this said, a professional FWD rally driver could pass a good driver in an NSX (in tight corners) on stock festiva suspension, but probably not with stock 12" tires. The tires are the weakest link. I consider the stock 12" tires unsafe, even at the speed limit.

Most importantly, you need to fix the problem area of the suspension. The aftermarket loves to sell springs and sway bars to make the suspension more rigid and therefore feel more controllable. This rigid setup is often times not better than stock though, because it comes at the cost of traction. A rigid chassis doesn't conform well to the road surface and can never hold the road like a compliant chassis. The trick isn't to paralyze the suspension, but to tune it and learn to use it. This requires carful tuning of the dampener valving and shock lengths, as well as an appropriately matched spring rate and style of spring.
When properly tuned, a Festiva chassis can hold the road better than most modern sports cars and supercars. It has been proven.

[TominMO]

I'm imagining a Porsche driver weeping uncontrollably right about now......

[Advancedynamix]

Both the drivers in that photo are experienced Porsche drivers, but one driver found a faster way around that corner.