Help diagnose this noise (bad valves?)

[Click_It]

My car had been running extremely lean for about 400-500 miles recently before fixing it (ie +15, it's since been timed back to +3).

There has been a gradual rattling sound but in the last few weeks its getting louder and louder. I'm barely doing more than 50 miles / week currently so I'm scared about covering long distances again soon.

Listen to the audio, the sound begins at 23 seconds. I'm guessing it's valves but I really don't know for sure.

It's at its worst on cold starts but also when the engine is under mild load or engine braking around the ~2000-2500rpm range. My ears aren't the best so honestly it's probably present a lot more than I'm saying. Also engine performance is suffering, under hard acceleration it almost feels like the spark plugs are bad, but they're near new and I even checked them after the lean experience, they seem in good shape. It just feels a bit rough under high revs.

• Question 1. What is it?
• Question 2. Is there any cheap solution?

I'm running 15w40 dino oil currently, I do have other oils on hand like fully synthetic 5w-30 (extremely high quality & expensive oil, added ZDDC but I rather not use that until I know it's going to stay in there) - I have heard thinner oils could help and thicker oils will just disguise the problem, have read about flushing with diesel oil or I could import some Auto-RX Plus which I hear can be amazing. Happy to try any of these but not if it's all pointless.

Thanks in advance, if the news is BAD then so be it, best I know than pretend otherwise.

PS: It's carbed that's why it sounds like a sewing maching (that part is normal!)

[ryanprins13]

Will it idle lower than 2000rpm? Lol. Harder to hear when its revving higher like that.
Question for you or anyone else- carbed cars do not have hla's right?

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[WmWatt]

Sorry, I'm on dialup access and can't listen until I go to the public library tomorrow.
However, a vacuum guage would help diagnose valve problems.
When my carbed engine sounds like a sewing maching it needs oil or valve adjustment.
Do you have a feeler guage for checking valve lash?

[harpon]

Sounds really dry to me, despite any other issues. I always used straight 40 weight in the old 88 and still try to use thick oil which is getting harder to find but based mostly on the pied piper car racing influence which doesn't want thick oil slowing the parts down before changing it out at 500 miles max. To me- thick oil penetrates the parts more thoroughly, does not lose viscosity and fills better any developing gaps in gasket- it doesn't let in pressure spikess. 40 weight never let me down and I'd still use it if I could get it.

[Click_It]

Sorry about the high revs, that was a cold start with the automatic choke in play. Once warm and idling it typically won't do it. But driving you'll still hear it a lot.

The oil is full but I agree it sounds a bit dry which is why I was wondering if alert gentle flush line Auto-RX could be worth a shot, maybe some sludge that needs shifted. At the same time I don't want to use an aggressive flush and do more harm than good. I've heard diesel oils with their extra detergents can help too but will wait for some advice before I start getting random things.

[ryanprins13]

Still hoping someone can say if it has hla's or not. Harpon? They will do that, but your noise doesnt sound like them although its a bit harder to tell at high rpms on a recording.
On my first festiva untill i pulled the hlas out and cleaned them it would always start ticking around 3500 miles on the oil, oil change then it was fine. How old is your oil?
5w30 was a lot better, 10w30 or thicker just starves the head area for oil until it warms up so you get more noise. Harpon is lucky these engines will run on almost anything. Mine seemed to do ok on 1 litre in the sump, wasnt an issue till it got down to 1/2 litre... i ran 5w20 for one winter, probly 12,000km just fine.
Lots of documentation, tests, white papers... showing why engines need oil flow and correct film thickness, not high backpressure from thick oil that cant move through the small passages.

I used atf and seafoam in the oil on my new festiva for 100km drive before an oil change and my engine got a lot more rattely and hla's started making a ton of noise and they werent before.
After i did some more research i would suggest that if you do any oil flush at all get one of the ones you put in the oil and idle for 10 min and change out. Not a flush that you drive with it in.
Change the oil and filter after the 10min, then change just the filter 500miles or so later.
But get a diagnosis on the noise before doing anything like that.
Anyway, have you had the valve cover off before? Does it have hla's or manual adjust?
How warm is it outside where you are when this is happening?
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[Click_It]

Ryan, I think it does NOT have HLA's but I'm only basing that off memory from things I've read here over the years - I could be wrong!

The oil in it presently is regular 15w-40 dino oil. The oil I wanted to run in it is Penrite HDR-5 (5w-40 not 5w-30 as I mentioned earlier) which is regarded as some of the best stuff money can buy in Australia (I got a few bottles cheap recently). And the present oil is only 1000 miles (1500km) old. I typically change oils around 3000-4000 miles (overkill i know...)

I do have the engine flush products designed to be used for only 10 minutes handy but never wanted to use it, I've heard it typically does more harm than good in our old cars. So I haven't gone down that route yet.

As for the valve cover being off, I did replace a gasket 2 years ago though I didn't pay much attention to anything else, will this pic of it open reveal anything to you?

Thanks for ongoing feedback guys, appreciate it, keep it coming. If I get a chance I'll stop into a mechanic today or tomorrow for an opinion, the problem is the car won't do it on idle by the time I get there, they'd have to drive it to hear it so that depends how busy they are.

And as for temps, that varies. When that recording was made it was about 18c (64f), certainly louder on a colder start, but the it'll do it driving regardless of temps, seems most audible around the 2000-2500rpm mark but my ears are really bad so it's probably doing it beyond that range too.

[ryanprins13]

Ryan, I think it does NOT have HLA's but I'm only basing that off memory from things I've read here over the years - I could be wrong!

The oil in it presently is regular 15w-40 dino oil. The oil I wanted to run in it is Penrite HDR-5 (5w-40 not 5w-30 as I mentioned earlier) which is regarded as some of the best stuff money can buy in Australia (I got a few bottles cheap recently). And the present oil is only 1000 miles (1500km) old. I typically change oils around 3000-4000 miles (overkill i know...)

I do have the engine flush products designed to be used for only 10 minutes handy but never wanted to use it, I've heard it typically does more harm than good in our old cars. So I haven't gone down that route yet.

As for the valve cover being off, I did replace a gasket 2 years ago though I didn't pay much attention to anything else, will this pic of it open reveal anything to you?

Thanks for ongoing feedback guys, appreciate it, keep it coming. If I get a chance I'll stop into a mechanic today or tomorrow for an opinion, the problem is the car won't do it on idle by the time I get there, they'd have to drive it to hear it so that depends how busy they are.

And as for temps, that varies. When that recording was made it was about 18c (64f), certainly louder on a colder start, but the it'll do it driving regardless of temps, seems most audible around the 2000-2500rpm mark but my ears are really bad so it's probably doing it beyond that range too.

Manual adjustment, thanks for the pic!
My opinion is the cheapest proper viscosity oil changed often enough works best for a daily driven b3. My civic (based on oil analysis) will do 15,000km no problem on the cheapest oil, festiva not so much, more like 6,000. Synthetic would last longer, but im not sure it will last longer enough to be worth it. Once a year/30k oil changes on the civic are fine with synthetic but i havent tried synthetic in the festiva. Next summer i think i will.

Ya, dont do a flush till you have a diagnosis. Do you have one of those mechanics stethascopes? Might be able to narrow down location of tick. Can you tell if its from the crank area or valve cover? Crawl under and listen, listen from the top, listen front and back of engine, see if you can narrow down the location.

18c is pretty warm for a cold start, 5w40 wont wreck anything but these engines really dont get hot enough or work hard enough when daily driving/commuting one person around to warrent thicker oil than recommended.
If its over +40 out or your really working it maybe.

But ya, see what a mechanic thinks, see if you can locate the noise and go from there


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[Click_It]

Quick reply,
Ryan what oil grade would you recommend? You're saying 5w-40 is a bit too thick? Maybe something like 5w-30 or 10w-30 would be a good start? Happy to give something else a go, and in the meantime still get a diagnosis of course.

I'll try to get more of an idea of where the sound is coming from, it's pretty hard as I get about 20 seconds on a cold start with it idling high rpms so it's pretty noisy in there then but I'll get to the bottom of this.

[ryanprins13]

Depends on temps and what you do with the car. Daily driving, -30 to +30c, long or short trips but especially short trips 5w30. Racing a lot or above +30 frequently a 10w30 is fine.
I dont see a reason to use an xw40. Im planning to tow a 1700 pound trailer 20k miles through some pretty big mountains and use a 5w30 synthetic diesel oil. Thin when colder, correct at operating temp and but has the thicker hths viscosity because its diesel rated.
On your next oil change i would try a cheap 5 or 10w30 and see what you think of it and if it makes a difference. The oils second number (20,30,40,50...) is at 212f. Festiva b3 oil temps (i have a gauge) match coolant temps when your not driving hard. (Ive driven the car pretty hard and they still match).
So normally you should be at 195-200f on your oil temp. A lot of thermostats seem to run colder or if its stuck open you run way colder.
Anyway, i ran 5w20 the other winter because at 192f 5w20 is the same viscosity as 5w30 at 212f. The oil was at least 20f colder in the winter so it was the same as 5w30 in the summer.
If your coolant temp needle gets above 3/4 a lot then your actually getting close to the 212f where its actually the 30 weight.
Most other vehicles ive measured temps on have the oil running a bit hotter than the coolant. My civic for example will be at 220f cruising at 100kmh. Go up to 130kmh and its 240f. Hottest i saw it was 250f. Never had my festiva above 190f i dont believe and that was after a lot of hills pulling a big trailer in +30c. Normal driving is like 180f with ac on driving through town in +30, but my thermostat is colder.

All that to say festiva oil doesnt get that hot so it doesnt really get thin.

But changing it out early wont fix valve lash or a bearing thats going bad, so just see if you can diagnose it.


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[Click_It]

I didn't know about the oil temps not getting so high in these cars so that's very interesting. Honestly I think everything is pointing to a 5w-30 / 10w-30 for me. The shop around the corner has 10w-30 Valvoline on sale today so I might grab that.

My coolant rarely touches 3/4, only on the >40c days and combined with traffic etc. Thermostat isn't stuck either.

I took it to a mechanic yesterday, he actually had a festiva around the back as an ex-courtesy car which was cool, looked in good nick too but is an auto. If it's got AC I might make him an offer, swap the AC and keep it for parts maybe.

Anyway the mechanic couldn't replicate the sound which was frustrating, he didn't have time to drive it and it really doesn't happen on idle once temps are up but he didn't think it was valves, said possibly the bearings if the oil isn't submerging them properly they'll go bad - which points me to thinner oil again. He also said it wouldn't hurt to adjust the valves, not quite sure what I'd be doing though, I'll have to dig out my Haynes manual.

Strangely though, he asked if the vacuum hoses to the dizzy were correct. I'm pretty darn sure I put them back the right way but he swapped them and the car does kinda feel better! I only drove for a few minutes so next time I really take it out I'll know for sure. Just doesn't make sense because I take before/after photos to ensure everythings goes back the way it came off so I don't know how I could have got something that simple, wrong.

I'll keep you posted. I started the car today (25c ambient) and for the first time no noise, could be just the warmer temps... Either way I want to give the 10w-30 a go next.

[ryanprins13]

I didn't know about the oil temps not getting so high in these cars so that's very interesting. Honestly I think everything is pointing to a 5w-30 / 10w-30 for me. The shop around the corner has 10w-30 Valvoline on sale today so I might grab that.

My coolant rarely touches 3/4, only on the >40c days and combined with traffic etc. Thermostat isn't stuck either.

I took it to a mechanic yesterday, he actually had a festiva around the back as an ex-courtesy car which was cool, looked in good nick too but is an auto. If it's got AC I might make him an offer, swap the AC and keep it for parts maybe.

Anyway the mechanic couldn't replicate the sound which was frustrating, he didn't have time to drive it and it really doesn't happen on idle once temps are up but he didn't think it was valves, said possibly the bearings if the oil isn't submerging them properly they'll go bad - which points me to thinner oil again. He also said it wouldn't hurt to adjust the valves, not quite sure what I'd be doing though, I'll have to dig out my Haynes manual.

Strangely though, he asked if the vacuum hoses to the dizzy were correct. I'm pretty darn sure I put them back the right way but he swapped them and the car does kinda feel better! I only drove for a few minutes so next time I really take it out I'll know for sure. Just doesn't make sense because I take before/after photos to ensure everythings goes back the way it came off so I don't know how I could have got something that simple, wrong.

I'll keep you posted. I started the car today (25c ambient) and for the first time no noise, could be just the warmer temps... Either way I want to give the 10w-30 a go next.

yes, This is what I have in my car, verified with other thermometers and a similar setup in my civic, use an IR gun on other vehicles unless they have an oil temp gauge. Just over half way up your dash coolant guage is 195f, about 3/4 is 207f where the fan kicks on. the temp you want to pull over at is actually not until it hits that red notch, unless you know there is a problem of course.




I just swapped a/c into mine. a bit of work but its sooooo nice!

adjusting valve lash isnt too hard, ive done it on non-festivas. take your time, be careful and precice, thats all.

i know nothing about carbs, cant help you there, sorry. you could post a pic here in a new thread and circle the hoses he swapped and ask whats correct though.

give the 10w30 a try if you like, i go with the cheapest oil and the best filter always. you can go with the best of both, but dont get good oil and the cheapest filter [emoji14] ive cut a lot of em apart and only buy wix/napa gold. a guy here convinced me to try the motocraft again and the mazda roki filter. tried one motocraft and it was junk but theres another part number ill try.

good luck!

I made 3 videos of trying to overheat my car. I pointed the camera at the gauges a bunch, you could check that out of your interested

https://youtu.be/C4ecGlVdyCU

[Click_It]

Awesome videos mate, I watched them all. She goes really nicely.

I wish I was in USA/Canada so I could meet up with other Festiva drivers, they are very far and few over here, it's becoming extremely uncommon to even see one on the road anymore - people actually come up to me and ask what the car is (and I haven't debadged it yet, so they aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, but still shows how uncommon they now are).

I always wanted to BPT mine, make the ultimate sleeper but life keeps getting in the way. If I had anyone able to help I'd still put in a 1.5L B5 in, one of the few engines much more common over here than America, and dirt cheap, slots straight in no worries. I just can't do it myself... First world problems I guess...

I haven't got the 10w30 yet but I think I might head up shortly and do that, see what difference it makes.

[ryanprins13]

Awesome videos mate, I watched them all. She goes really nicely.

I wish I was in USA/Canada so I could meet up with other Festiva drivers, they are very far and few over here, it's becoming extremely uncommon to even see one on the road anymore - people actually come up to me and ask what the car is (and I haven't debadged it yet, so they aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, but still shows how uncommon they now are).

I always wanted to BPT mine, make the ultimate sleeper but life keeps getting in the way. If I had anyone able to help I'd still put in a 1.5L B5 in, one of the few engines much more common over here than America, and dirt cheap, slots straight in no worries. I just can't do it myself... First world problems I guess...

I haven't got the 10w30 yet but I think I might head up shortly and do that, see what difference it makes.

Thanks! And it does, lol. I get 30 imp mpg pulling that trailer or this uhaul and i love it


Festiva meets are amazing! Ive been to the same meet 3 years in a row now and its great, such different cars there even though they are all festivas. This is a bunch of photos of this years meet i went to. https://fordfestiva.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60889
Have you seen the photos of madness 10? That was incredible. 75 festivas and like 20 aspires iirc.

Festivas are pretty uncommon here too, hardly anyone i meet knows what they are unless they know me and i almost never see any on the road. Maybe once a year other than a meet.

Ive always liked the b3 for some reason. Ive gotten to drive a bp, b6 and b6d and couldnt stop smiling the whole time i was in any of them though

If you liked the towing videos you could check out whats on the rest of my youtube channel when you have time. Theres a couple of plowing through a foot of snow, one mudding, a video showing how the rear beam is independant and another showing how the aspire beam isnt, a walkaround of my new car, a drag race i did and some festiva 'drifting'. Lol.

You should still post a couple photos of your vaccum lines to see what others here think


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[ryanprins13]

Oh, theres an austrailian festiva group on facebook as well as a worldwide group there if your on facebook

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