Another Oil discution

[Fordverde]

What do you think about Pennzoil Platinum 5w-50?????

[Pu241]

5W is too thin for me, especially in your environment!

Me, I'd rather see a 10W or may be a 15 or 20W!
But that's my opinion!

[roycehof]

Hey - that Pennzoil Platinum stuff is pretty pricey - the oil may be more valuable than the car - LOL! I have been using the 10W30 and 10W40 Platinum in my other car and it has been fine. I typically use the High Mileage stuff in my Festiva and that has been fine also (again 10w30 in the Winter and 10W40 in the Summer). The Festiva only holds 3.5 quarts so I put the remaining 0.5 quart in when it gets low and just change the oil and filter when it get about a quart low after I added the 0.5 leftover. (which is typically around 5K to 6K miles). That system seems to work pretty well since the oil I drain out is usually just a dark golden brown (Not black). My Festiva has too many miles on it using the Dino oil to change to the synthetic stuff now - I just don't want to foll with success. I think these engines typically outlast the cars so I really don't see an advantage to using the synthetic in it. I did however use synthetic ATF in the gearbox and maybe it is in my head, but it seems to shift smoother (But then again, that may be because I want to think so after spending the money for the stuff - Ha ha). Just my 2 cents worth. The 5W oil will most likely be too thin for the Festiva engine though.

[Fordverde]

mmmmm, My Festy is just been rebuilt. so the seals and gaskets are new. So what about Esso semi synthetic 10w40???

[Pu241]

If all seals are new you now have the option of going full synthetic!
If your willing to pay the price, you can benefit from extended change intervals.
However, for me, I use the 3K mile change to look over the engine for other things that might need attention.
Your call!

[Fordverde]

But what about the brand? Also, any ideas of a good oil filter???

[Pu241]

But what about the brand? Also, any ideas of a good oil filter???

Dino or synthetic use a known brand with certification labeling on it.

Filter, same advice do not use an unknown/no name brand filter you get what you pay for!

[gdawgs]

Read the manual that came with your car. If you live in a very hot climate(like over 100 F everyday) then go with 10 - 30. Otherwise 5 - 30. Most modern engines are designed for thinner oils. Using 10-40 or 20-50(especially) is not a good idea.

[Pu241]

Using 10-40 or 20-50(especially) is not a good idea

Please elaborate as to why this isn't a "good idea"!

The "thicker" oil at startup (the 10W part) provides more oil cushion at startup than the 5W oils.
Thus wear is reduced. Tribological studies have shown that 80+% of engine wear occuring during startup!
Yes, the thinner oil reduces pumping losses, but at the expense of increased wear!
So of the two I would chose the longevity of the engine!

Additionally, when I know I'll be hualing a heavy load (for the festiva) or
running at high speed for long lengths of time I switcht to 20w-50.
212K miles and no "oil related issues " yet!

[roycehof]

If that is a rebuilt engine you are planning to use synthetic in, that may not be a good idea. I somehow remember that they recommend that you don't use synthetics until after about 30K miles to allow the engine to break in and the rings to seat. Does anybody else remember hearing that? If it just re-sealed, go for it.

[Pu241]

I somehow remember that they recommend that you don't use synthetics until after about 30K miles to allow the engine to break in and the rings to seat.

I can't find documentation on it, put I though break in occurred with 1,000 to 1,500 miles (or less)
and that if all seals and gaskets are new it is fine to use synthetic from the beginning.
But, if you have used Dino for some time that it isn't wise to go to the synthetics
as they will tend to leak past the old gaskets and seals.
Once again I do not have access to confirming data, will have to look a little deeper.

[Fordverde]

My country's climate is always between 65-100F. As I see all of your feed back then the better choice is 5w-50, with that I cover all temp ranges, doesnt it???
By the way my engine has been completly overhauled.

[Fordverde]

but I has now like 2000km. at the firts 500km I changed the oil for 20w50 Shell.

[darkdan]

Okay, wow. Where do I start.

1.) No 10w40. Bad idea. It shears to a 10w30. When shearing happens deposits are formed from the broken polymer viscosity index improvers. 5w40 or 15w40 are more stable.

2.) 0w, 5w, 10w, etc tell you NOTHING about the start-up viscosity. These tests are done at subzero temperatures. Some 0w30s are THICKER at 70F than 10w30s. At neg30C you can bet on 5w being thinner than 10w, but at 85F.....you don't know by looking at the label. The second number tells you the viscosity of the oil at 100C.

3.) At startup you don't want thicker, you want thinner! It doesn't provide "cushion" you want thin fluids to get to the areas that need lubrication immediately. Of course, too thin is just as bad. But at 100F at start-up, 5w30, 5w50, 20w50, SAE 60, etc are all going to flow more than well enough. In Minnesota's winter we have to be a bit more picky.

4.) Keep in mind his 20w50 in the summer is about 7x thinner than my synthetic 5w30 in my winter at startup and therefore, he has less start-up wear.

5.) There's no definite "breaking-in" and "broke-in" number out there. For example, Ford's modular V8s show a great deal of break-in wear up until 10k to 15k miles and then it tapers off to elevated wear until about 20k to 25k miles. After that the wear levels off to normal wear. So Ford's 4.6L motors are still breaking-in at 25,000 miles. Let's not forget they're one of the best motors on the planet with the least amount of warranty fixes out there.

6.) Synthetics aren't magic. There's no need to "wait" for this or that. They're not too "slippery" or anything like that. Plenty of vehicles today come with synthetic as the factory fill. Of course, considering the first few oil change intervals should be brief due to the high amount of break-in wear it's a waste of money to use synthetic until about the 3rd or 4th oil change. But look at Honda and now Ford....7500 is the recommended oil change interval and "synthetic blend 5w20" is used.

7.) Keep in mind OUTSIDE the US thicker oils are the norm. Motors BUILT here that are recommended 5w20 (for EPA reasons) in the US that are sent overseas are recommended anything from 5w30 to 20w50 (Australian Focus with a US built motor).

Alright, for Fordverde's situation I'd recommend a diesel rated 5w40 or 15w40. It's plenty thick to handle the excessive heat, it's shear stable, it's heavy duty and contains enough ZDDP for flat tappets (if he has them), and should be very easy to find.

Plus, the best part of about diesel rated oils is that the diesel API standards are so strict it's practically impossible to find a "bad" CI-4 rated oil.

Esso does indeed make some fine oils.

[festivaWES]

i run straight 0/40 weight motul synthetic 8100