HELP re: front oil seals on 1.3

[spacegoblyn]

hello all, new to the forum and any help is greatly appreciated!

i just bought a 91 festiva 1.3 manual, and it has a massive oil leak. i've researched the forums and am pretty sure it's the crank/cam seal. i see there's also the possibility i need the crank repair kit, based on some of your experiences. i have a couple of questions i couldn't answer by browsing the forums though, before i dig into it.

1) are the crank and cam seals exactly the same on pre-93's? carquest seems to be charging a different price for the two and i don't want to get stuck with a wrong part.

2) is the consensus that it is easier to drop the engine a few inches than raise it or drill a hole in the wheelwell? i've seen where different methods were tried.

3) can anyone give me part numbers for just the seal from like auto value or advance/carquest, so i can compare this to what they're trying to sell me? i have NO confidence in the jackasses i usually have to deal with at either place in my town.

thanks a bunch for any help, i hope i can reciprocate someday when i'm a festiva guru.

[kzbill]

1. Crank and cam seal are different

2. I thought I saw that the motor was raised on the left side to expose the crank pulleys.

3. It looks like it could be a little confusing but measurements help if you had the seals out it would help and you peobably don't want to keep it sitting while you wait.

Part numbers and dimensions from rock auto

Crankshaft seal
GATES Part # KS14477 {Timing Component Seal 1 7/16" x 2" x 9/32"}
$4.10

Crankshaft seal
FEL-PRO Part # TCS45722
1324cc engine; Crankshaft front seal set; Must be used w/OS 30548R
$13.39

Crankshaft seal
BCA/NATIONAL Part # 228250 {Oil Seal / Fluoroelastomers / Shaft Size=3.268" Housing Bore=3.937" Outer Diameter=3.945" Width=0.354"}
More Info
$21.79 $0.00 $21.79

BCA/NATIONAL Part # 99328 {3.225" x 3.231" x .661"}
Redi-Sleeve $33.79

Crankshaft seal
ACDELCO Part # KS14477 {1 7/16" x 2" x 9/32" #89036279}
SEAL,CR/SHF TIMING COMPONENT SEAL
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 12 business days *
$4.55

Camshaft seal
CORTECO Part # 14302 {Engine Camshaft Seal}
Camshaft Oil Seal, $4.67

FEL-PRO Part # TCS45724
1324cc engine; Camshaft front seal set
More Info $4.99

BCA/NATIONAL Part # 223012 {Oil Seal / Acrylates / Shaft Size=1.181" Housing Bore=1.732" Outer Diameter=1.74" Width=0.276"}
$7.15

BCA/NATIONAL Part # 99114 {1.179" x 1.184" x .315"}
Redi-Sleeve $20.79

Camshaft seal
GATES Part # KS11612 {Timing Component Seal 1 3/16" x 1 3/4" x 9/32"}
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 2 business days * $8.64

Camshaft seal
ACDELCO Part # KS11612 {1 3/16" x 1 3/4" x 9/32" #89036288}
SEAL,CM/SHF TIMING COMPONENT SEAL $8.81
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 12 business days *

[Dave G]

If it's really massive, it's probably the crank (under pressure there). You pretty much have to drop the engine down, but it's really not that difficult. If I were you, I'd remove the old seal and take it with me to the parts store to make sure you get a match.

[funky technician]

if your talking about the pully side, I changed both the cam and the crank seals before without moving the engine or drilling any holes, its just a little tight but do-able, but if you mean the rear main seal (which is as big as your wrist) then you need to pull the motor

[spacegoblyn]

thanks for the info, you guys are a great bunch! i'll let you know how it turns out on a 10 point difficulty scale - 1 being 'my hands aren't even dirty' and 10 being fist-sized holes in the windshield.

[funky technician]

is 11 a "please tow" sign :lol:

[Festiva_tunner]

is 11 a "please tow" sign :lol:

No its a make it run and its yours :lol:

[skeeters_keeper]

^^ it'll run w/o a crank or cam seal :p



i just dropped the motor a few inches, all you have to do is remove the motor mount bolt by the airbox. (put it on a jack of course.... lol)

[spacegoblyn]

update:

1) the front crank and cam oil seals ARE apparently, in fact, the same part number. the crank seal i got was listed as either a 'timing cover seal' or a cam seal, same part.

2) i took off the passenger side mount completely and lowered the engine, it was extremely easy to get at everything that way.

3) i think i was right not to trust the anus at carquest who was trying to charge me more for the crank seal than the cam seal, given that they're the same thing. part number for seal: 223012. part number for crankshaft repair sleeve: 99114

so i dropped the engine down a few inches, pulled everything apart, and the crankshaft was indeed scored, as mattswab mentioned somewhere regarding changing a crank seal. so i spent longer trying to track down a crank sleeve in stock than i did tearing everything down. i finally got one by paying for it at auto value and then driving over an hour to their warehouse to pick it up myself (it HAD to be done TODAY). i used the crankshaft timing gear to push it onto the crank because the thimble thing that came with the sleeve was too shallow. once the sleeve was well seated, i fought with the oil seal for about 15 minutes before it finally popped in somewhat. i used a big, deep well socket and a a mallet to seat it the rest of the way, after dousing it in oil. i put it back together and drove it 35 miles, and so far, no runs no drips no errors. i'll check again in the morning but it looks like the sleeve kit did the trick, as an fyi for others who are having the repeating oil leak problem. i do have to say, this car was so much easier to work on than my talon that i have no words to describe it.

thanks again for the info (even if not all of it was right lol), and i hope this in turn is helpful to someone else.

edit: oh, and by the way i would rate the difficulty of this at about 3, due to having to get the sleeve on straight and then get the oil seal over it. you wouldn't think that .003 inches would make a difference but it does. you know it's an easy job when i don't even have to swear loudly.

[Dave G]

Cool!

Yeah, it's amazing how easy these things are to work on

[neanderpaul]

Awesome! and welcome to the site!