Transmission or Clutch noise?

[SLW in Oregon]

I have a 1990 Festiva manual 5 sp. Wow, have I really been on this forum since 2005??? Jeepers. Anyway, my car has a clanking noise, soft to loud depending on acceleration/load... In idle, I can hear a soft grinding whirring/rotating sound. When I engage the clutch, sound goes away. When load is applied, clanking and rattling gets a LOT louder, sounds like something is going to fly to pieces. Clanking increases speed as the car increases speed. Once up to 40+MPH or so, I don't hear it much, but that might just be the road noise or the engine/FWD drowning it out. I thought maybe throwout bearing. But somebody said they suspected [without looking] a transmission oil leak/dry transmission falling apart. Car has 172,200 miles. Original clutch. Original tranny. I'm going to take it in tomorrow, hopefully, to have tranny fluid checked, but thought I would post here in the meantime...... Thanks in advance.

[WmWatt]

I'd check the level of the transmission fluid and check for leaks around the transmission. To check the level of fluid you have to pull the speedometer cable out of the transmission.

[SLW in Oregon]

Thanks for your reply, WmWatt. Yes, I found out about the speedo cable when I took it to a quick-lube place yesterday to have the transmission fluid level checked. They couldn't check it, sent me to a garage, who didn't have time to check it. I'm on the phone today to find someplace to take it, if it makes it there.... I'm also shopping for a car - not sure I want to put out money on a transmission on this poor old Festy.

[ryanprins13]

Just fill it back up with oil. I had run mine right dry of oil and siezed it on the side of the road. Had to call someone to bring me oil. Poured it in and drove another 5 years on that same trans. I ran it right dry 2 times after that but stopped before it seized because i knew what the sound was and carried oil with me. I towed a lot with that trans too. Fill er up with cheap atf, find out where the leaks are, replace the $5 leaking seal and your good for another 100k

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[SLW in Oregon]

Ryanprins13, that sounds slightly encouraging. I'm not even sure it's dry, it's an educated guess, and I haven't found a place to check it out for me. I spoke with a transmission shop this morning, by the symptoms he said it was ready to blow or seize up, which scared me. Now you've given me a bit of hope. Too bad it's a pain to check and add fluid, I would do it myself.

[ryanprins13]

Ryanprins13, that sounds slightly encouraging. I'm not even sure it's dry, it's an educated guess, and I haven't found a place to check it out for me. I spoke with a transmission shop this morning, by the symptoms he said it was ready to blow or seize up, which scared me. Now you've given me a bit of hope. Too bad it's a pain to check and add fluid, I would do it myself.

If it hasnt been checked since 2005 or earlier thats a good place to start! I also would avoid driving it as much as possible until your able to check. The seals start to leak fluid out when they get old and eventually enough is gone that bad things start to happen. But its super easy to chech and add fluid! I had trouble removing the cv shafts to replace a leaking seal on mine so i left it and just added oil. For the first few years it was just once a month, then every 3 weeks, then every 2 weeks... the last while before i finally changed the seals i was adding 1-1.5quarts every week. Takes less than 5 minutes to do. The first time getting the speedometer cable out is the most difficult, after that its easy. There is a 10mm bolt holding it down that you remove with a socket and ratchet. Then the first time you take a slip joint or water pump pliars and grab the base of it and twist it around with one hand while you pull up on the cable or the top of the base with the other hand.
Check the level when its out, its likely at least a bit low so take a transmision funnel or any long neck funnel and use it to pour some atf in there. Take a popsicle stick, pencil, dowel or anything to mark how far from the top of the transmission you want the oil to be and use that as your dipstick instead of the speedo cable which is hard to get in and out and read.
Once its full enough rub a little grease on the speedo cable o-ring and where it seals on the transmission opening. Then shove it back in there while twisting. Make sure it goes all the way down. I always left the bolt out because i did it so often. Next time you should not need pliars, you should be able to pull it out just by hand.
Super simple, takes like 3 minutes.
If you put a little box in your trunk with the oil, funnel, ratchet, homemade dipstick, flashlight and gloves it can be done in any parking lot with your sunday clothes on and you wont be dirty or anything after. Its pretty easy.
Good luck!

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[SLW in Oregon]

ryanprins13 Thanks so very much for your detailed info and encouragement. Maybe I'll get up the nerve to dig into it. It's going to be a mess under there, oil leaking for years and years. This kind of reminds me of when I had a 1962 Ford Econoline Van that would blow out donuts on the exhaust manifold. I carried extra donuts with me and would put a new one in whenever the old one blew. One morning I was on the way to work, on a long on-ramp to the freeway. There I was, on the side of the road, wearing a dress, underneath my car..... We do what we must! Thanks again. I'll let you know how things transpire.

[WmWatt]

^^ Yes, to remove the speedo cable you have to jack up the car and do it from below, then pour in the fluid from above . Much easier on a lift. Also be gentle with the speedo cable housing as it is soft metal and prone to breaking.

[ryanprins13]

^^ Yes, to remove the speedo cable you have to jack up the car and do it from below, then pour in the fluid from above . Much easier on a lift. Also be gentle with the speedo cable housing as it is soft metal and prone to breaking.

What? Why? I have done it literally hundreds of times and never once got under the car. I would think that would be much more difficult, but i have never tried i guess.
The housing is the same metal as the rest of the transmission, the tab typically only breaks off when you try to tighten the bolt when the housing is not fully inserted into the transmission, something many of us festiva owners have done including me

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[WmWatt]

^^ I would guess it's because of all the hoses in the engine bay in the carburetted model. I've never tried on a fuel injected model.

[ricko1966]

^^ Yes, to remove the speedo cable you have to jack up the car and do it from below, then pour in the fluid from above . Much easier on a lift. Also be gentle with the speedo cable housing as it is soft metal and prone to breaking.

I have learned overtime that pulling the speedo drive is really not very hard from the top with a 10mm combination wrench. Try it next time. I also have never broken off the tab. I also have carb and fuelly models.Take your 10 mm wrench reach in from the top loosen the hold down bolt tell you can spin it out with your fingers, Wiggle and pull on the drive cable still attached.If it's stubburn clamp vice grips on wiggle and pull. Going back insert the drive in the trans.wiggle everything tell you can start the hold down bolt by hand,wiggle it give it a couple more turns by hand. Take a long punch extension,whatever and from the top drive the drive down snug the hold down bolt,another snug another tap another snug. done.

[SLW in Oregon]

Easy peasy. So much easier than jacking up the car. Got the speedo cable out easily, fluid was still visible but I added more to bring level up. The tab must have been ready to snap, alas. I had re-inserted the gear, had it snug to the base, was just lining up the bolt into the hole, hadn't began to screw it down, and the 30-year-old aluminum tab snapped off. Dangit. Oh well, that's the least of the problems. Of course, adding more fluid didn't alleviate the noise. A neighbor is coming today to drop the transmission and see what's what. I remember reading yesterday somewhere to be careful disconnecting something or other and not allowing it to drop down into the transmission housing or something - sorry, can't be more precise. I can't find the post, it wasn't on this forum. Any ideas? Thank you all for your help with this. I am trying so hard to save my car!

[ryanprins13]

Oh, thats too bad. Hope your neighbour can figure it out. If you like you could also try taking a video of the noise, uploading it to youtube and then posting the link here. Maybe someone will recognize whats wrong.
My best guess is your thinking of the differential. If you remove both cv axles so that neither of them is in the transmission it is possible for a gear to move and its very difficult to get it back into place. A few people have had it happen. I have removed a few transmissions, had both cv shafts out and never had that gear move but it does happen. Easiest fix is to take a piece of wooden dowel and put it through the trans where the cv shafts went through. Then secure the dowel with mechanics wire so it cant fall out. Then that gear cant spin or move.

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[SLW in Oregon]

Update. Well, we found a wobbly throwout bearing, replaced it as well as the clutch, hoping that was it even though symptoms weren't exactly that.... Just took it for a test drive, noise is still there. Dang. Now I'm looking into the input shaft bearings. I found a post here with r&r tips [Transmission Noise? 09-25-2007]. Any other info would be most appreciated. Dang!

[WmWatt]

Don't know if this will help but a couple of things I've done to diagnose noise are to put the front end up on stands so the drive wheels are off the ground, start the engine, and run through the gears listening for noise. You can get out of the car and use a length of garden hose as a stethescope. Might also try tapping on the transmission with a rubber mallet while the wheels are turning. Never tried that one myself.

Another thing I've done to simulate a stationary load is with all four whees on the ground set the parking brake, start the engine, put the car in gear, and slowly let out the clutch at bit until the car is about to stall and listen for noise.