Wiring to fuel tank

[riknapora]

Hello! I am about to buy my first Festiva... a 1991 that has been sitting for at least a decade. The issue is this...the owner wanted to disable the car so it would not be driven, so he cut the wires leading to the fuel tank about 8-10 inches from the plug on top of the fuel tank. He does not remember where he put the wires he cut off. My dilemma is that there are six wires in the harness (all wrapped together) at the cut, but only 4 terminals on top of the tank. I can buy an aftermarket pigtail to connect 4 of the 6 wires...but I need to figure out where the other two go. Anyone have any ideas? It would take me about 5 minutes in a wrecking yard to pull a back seat out, take the inspection panel off the tank, and open the wiring harness (and to cut it and take it with me and purchase it), but no yards around here have any Festivas at all. Does anyone have access to a wrecked or not running Festiva who could snap any pics of what I need or where the wires go? The wiring diagram is not helpful because it does not show actual locations.

[WmWatt]

I looked this up in the Haynes manual but the photos are black and white and dont' show wires. If you can find another source of instructions or a video on replacing the fuel tank it might show the connectors and the colour coded wriing postitions. Good luck.
As for what wires you might have there is pump, fuel guage, and inertia switch.

[bravekozak]

A31

There are four wires (two redundant pairs) for the electric fuel pump motor + a yellow and black wire for the sender.
If you buy some brass Yazaki .250 open barrel terminals from easternbeaver.com, you can plug right into the factory connector.

[harpon]

I've been sitting on this repair for two years and not sure I can do it. but I saw your post this morning while looking at others and I've been out messing with my '91- no power to the new fuel pump I put in the tank two years back hoping to find the problem.

Anyway, I ended up taking the pump out and with the wires in question so I took a few shots:

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So- six wires from the harness connector go down to four and go into the top- I tried to get that connector apart, but couldn't. The red and yellow wire are for the fuel gauge- which is working in my Festy- and somehow the yellow wire seems to become a black negative ground as it is attached to the sender below the gas tank cap- the wire screwed down with the phillips head screw in the last photo.. The other wires- black/red and black white merge together with like-wires from the harness- I'm clueless as to why there are two of each-and are the slightly larger gauge wires that attach positive and negative to the positive and negative of the pump- I took it out again to make sure the polarity was correct and that the pump was tight against the flange. I removed the insulation to check for shorts.

The pump tested out again- the old one tested good after I removed it too. And I got some continuity testing at the harness end even though my continuity testers were all falling apart. Apparently I'm still not getting any power from the harness- except for the gas gauge- The relay has been replaced and is clicking loudly- so I'm thinking it might be the MAF signal lacking (?) , or else a short between the relay and pump- maybe not, but the wires going into the unit aren't that great and I 'm thinking about some kind of two lead reconnect for the pump- but probably wont since it was working fine before it didn;t and I have no continuity from the harness. I'll tape them up again probably. I might try to jump the pump again and put in a switch for on and off. I could at least move it then, until the problem is resolved.

I've taken better photos, and the last one of the sender is very bad, but I hope this helps.

[harpon]

If I don't get a MAF signal, but if I jump the pump leads directly- would the car run if that's the problem , or does the lack of signal affect some other aspect? I'm trying t put a new black ignition near the coil, but some incredible Hulk tightened the two phillips screws beyond belief- I've been soaking and tapping them and trying not to destroy the screw head, but no go and FRUSTRATING!

huhuhh

I've also tried to use the jump connector with NO RESULT. Time to buy a MAF?

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[harpon]

Got the ignition module, aka "ignitor" off yesterday- I had to drill and destroy as the phillips screw heads got more compromised- They actually had small 7mm nuts on the bottom side- I'm not sure if I still have a spanner that small or if it would have fit- I thought they were driven into tapped treads on the plate. So anyway- the screws aren't any good now- and one of the nuts got dropped, and I'm trying to piece hardware together to attach the new module.

Does anyone know if this part is grounded here? It half-assed looks like it may supposed to be, but what a pain- with copper sleeves around the screws, nothing much larger will fit, and sheet metal drivers would not work because the holes in the plate are as large as the copper shafts and a driver that fits in the copper sleeves has nothing to grab and drive against.

Could the metal of the ignition coil bracket by itself be enough to ground that part? It looks like aluminum on the bottom of the ignition module is aluminum, but the other part was full of gel and a few little circuits. Not even looking as complex as the guts of a transistor radio, yet the car doesn't run without it? Weird. I see them advertised for upwards of 70-80 on ebay, but also under 12- and I'll bet its the same part. Should I spring another $15 for a coil? Still don't have the fuel pump back in- 97 and 98 predicted here for a week with little chance of rain.

:woc:

P.S. Fuel pump is now back in the tank, tested both positive and neg through the connector and running- so grounded and power. Next I will test a short jumped burst to make sure it is pumping in the correct polarity. Then I'll know at least that much for certain, and a circuit failure otherwise, probably.

New MAF on the way- the car's 29 years old so if I end up having to use this car, I don't mind a newer one, current problem or not.

[harpon]

Having no luck here. I got the new ignition module on, distributor, cap and rotor and the rebuilt MAF came today and so it's ON. But the car is still OFF.

Tested a short burst from the fuel pump at the top of the rear seat well, both grounding and positive battery, and it pumped out some fuel- so I hooked the connector back up- I realized now that I can barely hear the fuel pump, even when jumping it from another battery- I don't think I can ever hear it while the starter grinds away- unlike my 96 Aspire which I can definitely hear prime on "key on". So this may be a problem and already may have caused confusion.

So when I got the new MAF on and the car still turns over with no pop, I ended up taking out the new fuel filter I had put on a couple of years ago, and guess what? NO FUEL coming out that end, even then when I jump the pump now and can hear it running- so there's no fuel coming out and getting to the rail, whether the fuel pump is now operating on it's own circuit or not, and I really can't tell while the starters cranking. And NO FUEL when the pump is jumped-

So I must have a clogged line I'm thinking, and still not sure if fuel pump circuit is up, even. My hope of it firing up with a new MAF has been dashed I've sprayed some carb cleaner down at the fuel filter end, and will probably take the sending hose back off again and do the same from that end, and maybe poke some spokes or cable through as far as I can, and don't know what else to do. I haven't got an air compressor or anything.

Anybody got any suggestions? Can I get some gasoline in the line by the rails, or where would I spray some starter fluid?
I'd like to get it to run even for a moment to eliminate the myriad of paranoid possibilities running through my wonder and frustration with it.

[firebush357]

Pop one of the rubber lines off of the plastic intake tube and spray some starter fluid in there and then replace the hose and start it while giving it a little throttle. Or if you can get it to reach you can pop one of the rubber hoses off of the intake plenum and spray directly into that and then replace and crank.

The fuel pumps in a Festiva do not prime with the key on like a normal car. To get them to turn on there is a connector near your brake booster that you can put a loop of wire in and then just turn the key to run and it will kick the fuel pump on. If you messed with the lines on the fuel pump make sure that you didn't put them on backwards.

[WmWatt]

What a clean engine bay you have there.

[harpon]

The pictures are from shortly after I got the car- geez four or five years back now- but as I haven't driven it, its about the same- this starting problem popped up a couple of years back and just getting to it. Anyway, I'd just sprayed a lot of silver paint on things, so the overspray is gone now.

Thanks Firebush- It's an oversight on my part that I haven't yet got any starter fluid- I'm going to take a breather on this for a day or two and get that, and some more spray carb cleaner- I think the pump is functioning otherwise- as I said I tested it without the line for a moment and it was spraying fuel- whether the pressure is correct I can't say- but it doesn't seem to get the fuel to the filter in engine compartment- although at one point seems to may have spewed some carb cleaner back out at that end- so I'm baffled and have to fuss with it some more.

I've tried the fuel pump connector, both bridging it and grounding the green wire, with little result.

Before the total lack of fuel pump- this car exploded to life . Theres only about 77,000 miles n the clock, and I think that may be reliable. No real rust to speak of but you know damp Jacksonville winters and the car's been outside for two years instead of in the shed where I was keeping it in winters.

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[harpon]

I FINALLY got around to being able to put some more time in it- I think I may be close to starting, but not a complete repair-

I first sprayed carb cleaner in the fuel lines where the filter was out and a new one ready to go in CORRECTLY this time, and I even poked a wire hanger in as far as it would go- a foot towards the tank, and to the rail on the other end. And did the same at the pump end.

Then I repeated the jumping of the fuel pump with the line off- pump functions, polarity correct.

The last time I messed with the car, I didn't seem to get fuel out the filter end of the line when hastily jumping the pump and getting dark.

So THIS time with much carb cleaner in the line, I put the line back on the fuel pump and got gas into a can in the engine room. Hooray! So fuel coming through line- lots of gunky stuff too- it may have been clogged by incorrect fuel filter direction. Anyway one step ahead than brefore.

I then hooked up the fuel filter and tried to start the car normally- no go.

So I then jumped the fuel pump through the gas line and the line- with gas and pressure- was working it's way off the connector at the filter- so I'm looking now for a small worm clamp and through for the day- aching and stiff feet- I never thought it would get this hard.

Anyway- I think the car may start with the pump jumped directly. If it doesn't I'll make sure the MAF is jammed open. I always then always try the jump connection, but the power to the fuel pump through the normal circuit still seems to elude me.

The relay has been replaced- both the old and new click like they have power. All I can think of now is a possible short between the relay and the pump. The MAF was new and rebuilt at the start of summer.

or NO CONTINUITY to the power side of the relay- my testers are falling apart- or from the battery side- because the switch circuit is working.

Anyway hope I can get to it soon again and at least get it started so I can put it in the shed for the winter. If it starts or doesn't, I'll have more clues to the problem- more actually if it will just fire.

Is it possible to just run a new fuel pump relay and wire it to "key on" or "start"?