Tail/dash lights not working - parking light relay question

[grot87]

1990 Festiva

I've tracked the issue back to the parking light relay on the passenger side. I have 12 volts at both of the white wires. I can also hot wire the red/black wire directly and all the lights come on. I am planning to replace the relay but I noticed something that doesn't match my wiring diagram.

When my parking lights are turned off, the red/yellow wire is grounded. When I turn them on, my multimeter shows no continuity with ground. This is the opposite of what it should be. According to my diagram, it should stay open, and close to ground when the switch is turned on to allow current through the relay coil to activate the relay.

The relay itself seems to be burned out and stuck open, as the tail fuse is constantly showing 12 volts when the relay is plugged in, regardless of the headlight switch being on or off, but none of my lights come on. Only removing the relay and hot-wiring from the either of the white wires (I tested both) make the lights come on.

If anyone has any part numbers handy for the parking light relay, I would appreciate it. I know I had to do some research to find the headlight relay last summer. I hope my diagram is wrong (Haynes) and that it powers the coil to keep the parking lights off. That seems to be the case, unless my multifunction switch has failed in a very unusual way. If anyone on here has access to any Ford diagrams or something like that, I'd very much appreciate it if you could check.

Thanks,

-a

[1990new]

I have a 1992 Festiva and Vacuum Troubleshooting Guide and it looks like it agrees with the description of the wire color and connections as you describe them.
Both white wires going to the parking light relay should have power at all time as long as you battery is connected and you main fusible link is connected so 12 volts there is correct.
The R/Yellow wire from the relay goes to the parking light part of the multicolumn switch and it would show power if you grounded it directly...turning on the park lights would normally provide its ground and it would then activate the the relay to provide power to the tail fuse which carries power to the lights (except for the head lights).
If you disconnect the red/yellow wire from the relay and you still have power to the tail light fuse.. the relay is definitely bad, but if you don't have power to the tail light, there is a short to ground on the red/yellow wire somewhere from the relay to the switch or you have a bad multicolumn switch.

[grot87]

I did some poking around at the steering column and found some handy work. The red/yellow wire was showing 12 volts at the relay connector with the connector removed, so I looked at where the connector goes into the MFS. The previous owner used a quick splice to the red/black headlight relay wire going into the MFS. Evidently this was a fix for a faulty MFS not grounding the red/yellow wire properly. The side effect was that now the yellow/red wire was hot when the lights were off, but the main goal was to use the headlight's ground in the MFS to provide a path for the parking light relay. I removed the splice and can confirm that the red/yellow wire at the relay does not have a ground path when the switch is on or off now. Of course, the red/black wire shouldn't be grounded through the switch when it is switched off either, because that should activate the headlight relay, so the fact that the red/yellow was doing that through the red/black means something else doesn't add up. I will test the red/black wire at the MFS that controls the headlight relay to see if I can figure out this behavior. I will replace the parking light relay and possibly might have to rig up a new headlight switch. I see the actual part trending upwards of $150 American.

I prefer having the switch on the dash anyway. Maybe I can find some kind of rubber cap to hide the non functional MFS headlight controls if I do this.

I have to stop for now as the pollen count here is going to kill me before the Coronavirus does.

[hot4dl8ly]

Does it have any KIA type part numbers on it (like KKYxxxxxx) ?

[1990new]

I did some poking around at the steering column and found some handy work. The red/yellow wire was showing 12 volts at the relay connector with the connector removed, so I looked at where the connector goes into the MFS. The previous owner used a quick splice to the red/black headlight relay wire going into the MFS. Evidently this was a fix for a faulty MFS not grounding the red/yellow wire properly. The side effect was that now the yellow/red wire was hot when the lights were off, but the main goal was to use the headlight's ground in the MFS to provide a path for the parking light relay. I removed the splice and can confirm that the red/yellow wire at the relay does not have a ground path when the switch is on or off now. Of course, the red/black wire shouldn't be grounded through the switch when it is switched off either, because that should activate the headlight relay, so the fact that the red/yellow was doing that through the red/black means something else doesn't add up. I will test the red/black wire at the MFS that controls the headlight relay to see if I can figure out this behavior. I will replace the parking light relay and possibly might have to rig up a new headlight switch. I see the actual part trending upwards of $150 American.

I prefer having the switch on the dash anyway. Maybe I can find some kind of rubber cap to hide the non functional MFS headlight controls if I do this.

I have to stop for now as the pollen count here is going to kill me before the Coronavirus does.

I have 3 extra good park light relays. You can easily test your by removing it and putting your ohm meter wires to connectors labeled com and hot then connect 12v power pos and neg to the prongs marked coil... if you relay is good you will hear a click and the ohm meter will register the connection.

I also have two extra MFS .. one with non working wiper I think.. but you can switch out parts between them if you wipers are working ok.
PM me if you need them and I'll give you a good deal one either or both.

These from Fourgreen have intermittent wiper controls but not positive they work on the 1990 and with shipping the cost would be over $100
https://www.fourgreen.com/store/scri...roduct=5684182

[1990new]

The relay has H310 on the black rubber cover.
No Kia part numbers on the MFS The one with the white connector has number 176870 followed by a small 4 The one with the black connector has the 176870 but no small 4 after it.

You could probably make this relay work for you. https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-40A-...YAAOSwr05eDiEc

[grot87]

Unfortunately any part numbers have long since faded off. 1990new, thank you for all that information. When I'm feeling up to taking on the pollen again, I'm going to investigate what's going on with my switch some more, but you may indeed be hearing from me via PM soon. Thanks to all for contributing. I'll still post back here with updates later on but I'm fairly certain a new relay is in order anyway.

Oh and about the relay: I have tested it, no clicks, no continuity, nothing. It may be that the splice solution is actually still working, and that my relay has just conked out. Once I test the Headlights relay control wire and figure out what's going on there, I'll decide how to proceed. It certainly turns on the headlights anyway, so it definitely can signal a relay. I'm gonna try and grab a relay from a parts store and set everything back up how it was for now I think.

Thanks again for giving the H310 info. I'll probably be looking for a relay from a 1990 Mazda Miata or pickup truck at the parts counter because that's how I usually find my electrical stuff. I can match the shape to the old relay but it is nice to have the model number when fudging around like that.

EDIT: Oh hang on, H310 is also the headlight relay is it not? I guess it makes sense they would be about the same, my old headlight relay had H310 on it I believe. I guess they are basically the same thing. Looking at the part stores they only list a headlight relay. It's worth a shot I guess!

[1990new]

Unfortunately any part numbers have long since faded off. 1990new, thank you for all that information. When I'm feeling up to taking on the pollen again, I'm going to investigate what's going on with my switch some more, but you may indeed be hearing from me via PM soon. Thanks to all for contributing. I'll still post back here with updates later on but I'm fairly certain a new relay is in order anyway.

Oh and about the relay: I have tested it, no clicks, no continuity, nothing. It may be that the splice solution is actually still working, and that my relay has just conked out. Once I test the Headlights relay control wire and figure out what's going on there, I'll decide how to proceed. It certainly turns on the headlights anyway, so it definitely can signal a relay. I'm gonna try and grab a relay from a parts store and set everything back up how it was for now I think.

Thanks again for giving the H310 info. I'll probably be looking for a relay from a 1990 Mazda Miata or pickup truck at the parts counter because that's how I usually find my electrical stuff. I can match the shape to the old relay but it is nice to have the model number when fudging around like that.

EDIT: Oh hang on, H310 is also the headlight relay is it not? I guess it makes sense they would be about the same, my old headlight relay had H310 on it I believe. I guess they are basically the same thing. Looking at the part stores they only list a headlight relay. It's worth a shot I guess!

Honestly I just have 3 4 prong relays that have a tab for attaching to the body and they all have H310 on them... they act the same way so I guess they are probably the same. The Park lamp relay gets power from the 25A Main fusible link and the Head relay gets power from the 15 Amp Head fusible link.. as long as the wire connector is the same.

[grot87]

Okay, so update: I went ahead and just got a new relay and set the headlights up as they were. With the signal wires tied together, I get headlights and taillights on together again, but I can't use just the parking lights... which is something I have never needed or wanted so I never noticed I couldn't do that before. Changing a relay is easy enough, I was mainly confused by the non standard wiring set up. So I have fixed my headlights for now, unless I want to do it properly and source the parts to fix my MFS or a replacement. The headlights have been working since I have had the car, but if my switch has failed for the parking lights, how much longer do I really have before it fails altogether...?

Anyway, as a bonus, I am attaching a pic of a 20 dollar headlight switch from a Freightliner Cascadia. For comparison is the delete plate that fits in the slots where stuff like the rear window defroster goes. The white part is the perfect size to fit, so with a little dremeling of the opening in the dash and the odd couple of wires and spade connectors, this switch could be crammed into the dash (which is would prefer to have it anyway). I might wait for my switch to fail completely before I go this route, but it will look pretty cool if I do. In the meantime, I'll have to decide if I want to buy parts to fix my MFS and keep it stock.

I keep enough spare wires and spade connectors in the car so I can always hot wire the headlight and taillight relay connectors if i was to lose my switch while on the road.

[1990new]

Insulate MFS (2).JPG Insulate MFS (4).JPG Insulate MFS (6).JPG Insulate MFS (8).JPG Insulate MFS (9).JPG Insulate MFS (10).JPG Does your dimmer on the MFS still work OK.. and the turn signals? If they do it could be just the insulation has come off on the red green and white wires that go into the stalk.
I just checked the two that you see in the picture and the insulation is broken in several places... (glad I took a closer look before I sold them to someone). I will see if I can repair the insulation.

I insulated the wires and made one good MFS. I am confident that everything works and that there is no short in the wires. I tested with ohm meter between all wires with light switch at off, park and head. Pictures are out of order but you get the idea. If you decide you want this one you can have it for $30 shipped in the US.
Insulate MFS (1).JPG Insulate MFS (11).JPG

[grot87]

The dimmer and turn signals still work fine. The red and green wires have actually been spliced together so that the parking light relay wire and the headlight relay wire are connected right before the switch. I removed this and verified that is what I was dealing with. I put it back in place because that is the only way to get the parking lights to work. I think I may just keep this set up for the time being since it seems to work.