O2 question

[dahodges]

Lasvegas let us/me know how the water for gas goes. I've seen this lately and it sounds to good to be true. I've been waiting for someone to try it. So let us know. Please.

David

[ejp2fast]

Lasvegas let us/me know how the water for gas goes. I've seen this lately and it sounds to good to be true. I've been waiting for someone to try it. So let us know. Please.

David

YES! There is a lot of back and forth issues here, but your progress would be most interesting!

[lasvegascop]

I will my friends....I will

[MeeMo]

I will my friends....I will

You forgot to follow that up with an evil laugh.

[deathegg]

My problem with the whole thing really ( and i still don't think it would work, at least not very well) is this:
Let's say it works. You are using the electricity of the battery and charging system to transfer hydrogen energy out of water and then using that to enhance gasoline. Right?

Not a very direct way of using the electrical energy of the car. The process, if it works (and is 100% efficient; not likely) just exchanges one type of energy for another (using electricity to get hydrogen). It's not as though you are getting something for nothing. At best, it's an even exchange.

Why not use that electric power to power an electric assist motor? A much more direct and efficient means of using electricity.

[lasvegascop]

Check online and you will see that today's "hybrids" get realllllly crappy gas mileage! I mean for the money? Geez, come on....I think I saw an ad for Honda 35 MPG? whoopi! Hydrogen is 10 times more efficient than gasoline, your alternator produces way more energy that you'll ever use or need, therefore it's wasted power, so? Take that already wasted electricity and make a small reaction and get some hydrogen pumping into the motor. The generator believe it or not is a small unit...yeah, it uses around 25-35 amps, but the benefits? Gee, less gasoline into the motor, same or more power output, cleaner exhaust and cleaner everything. Oh yeah, did I mention Federal tax breaks????? Just say you add 8 or even 10 miles per gal to your trip? After a while it adds up and Festiva gets better gas mileage than most of todays hybrids as it is! Now I was looking into Geo Metro's since they are running on 3 cyl 1.0 liter motors. I think they make like 50-55 MPG ????? the possibilities with that....wow

[Burnrate]

I have not done any of this but have read a lot on using hydrogen in ICE's. It allows the engine timing to be set at closer to tdc and allows less backpressure on the stroke. This has some efficency benefits. Hydrogen burn can be far cleaner and also allows burning of a wide range of fuels. You would have to set up for a specific fuel ratio and stick close to it. Or have a way to adjust for different timing on the fly.

[FB71]

Hydrogen is 10 times more efficient than gasoline, your alternator produces way more energy that you'll ever use or need, therefore it's wasted power, so?

I think you need to go back and do your homework again...

I'm the coordinator and instructor for the Diesel and Equipment Maintenance Technology at the Comminuty College of Baltimore County in MD, I'm also a trainer for the NAFTC (National Alternative Fuels Training Consortium) thru West Virginia University, and I'm formerly a techincal instructor for Ford Motor Company, and specialized in hybrid and diesel vehicles. I'm a very big proponent of alternate fuel sources, electric power, and energy independence. So, those are my credentials...

Hydrogen only carries about 2/3 the energy carried by long-chain hydrocarbon petroleum fuels. WVU experimented with several different HHO devices, and determined they do not produce enough hydrogen to positively affect the fuel economy of a vehicle. A few of the devices drew so much current, they actually caused fuel economy to decrease, and prevented the vehicle's charging system from properly operating. Alternators are carefully sized to the vehicle's needs. A Festiva alternator produces 45amps. Vehicle current draw at full load (headlamps, wipers, blower fan, cooling fan, EFI, A/C) draws 35-40amps. The remaining current is used to float a surface charge across the battery, because all batteries are in a constant state of self-discharge. So, where, may I ask, is this extra capacity?

Not trying to be a tool, I just don't care to see someone make incorrect statements.

[deathegg]

well....in theory it all sounds yummy, but what i want is actual, non-biased, independent, peer-reviewed PROOF that it works. None exists.

As for me, my next car will be wvo powered.

[FB71]

I think I saw an ad for Honda 35 MPG? whoopi!

by the way, are you aware that there are different levels of hybridization?

Honda products are classified as Medium Hybrids. They utilize electric power to decrease engine emissions in urban environment operation. The goal was NOT overall higher fuel economy (with the exception of the Insight, which is now out of production). Full or Strong Hybrids, like the Prius and Escape, are designed to improve fuel economy and lower emission across all modes of operation. Consider that the Escape weighs over 3000lbs, has multiple passenger safety devices, passenger comfort devices, cabin entertainment systems, is very crash-worthy, and performs like a V6 gasoline powered vehicle. It does this while averaging 28-34mpg highway and 32-40mpg city. That same vehicle 10 years ago wouldn't 25mpg.

[FB71]

well....in theory it all sounds yummy, but what i want is actual, non-biased, independent, peer-reviewed PROOF that it works. None exists.

As for me, my next car will be wvo powered.

I see you're in California, correct? Does it get below 50 degF in you part of Cali? If so, WVO/RVO isn't always practical, because the fuel begins to cloud at 65, and gel at 50. Not saying it can't be done, just pointing out that WVO/RVO isn't pactical in all climates.

[deathegg]

Yep, in SoCal right now, but probably moving back to Pittsburgh next year.

Yes, i'm quite aware of the limitations of wvo, but systems such as Grease-car seem to work fine by having the wvo circuit heated, so that when you manually switch to the wvo, it flows just like diesel fuel.
Then right before you want to shut the car off, you switch back to the oem system to flush out the wvo from the injectors, etc.

if i do it, it won't be my primary transportation, just part of my "fleet", including old air-cooled vw's. (one of which is a pristine '69 T3, w/ 35k original miles)

I have a buddy in sw pa that has it on an old 1970's Mercedes, and has no trouble with it, even on really cold Pittsburgh winter mornings (0-10 f).

I really like the idea of paying nothing for my fuel. Also, it is proven tech, unlike some other things........

btw FB71, great credentials! Next time i have a fuel/alt energy question, I'm coming to you!

[FB71]

if i do it, it won't be my primary transportation, just part of my "fleet", including old air-cooled vw's. (one of which is a pristine '69 T3, w/ 35k original miles)

bites lower lip, and tries to hide envy...

[GenevaDirt]

I think you need to go back and do your homework again...

I'm the coordinator and instructor for the Diesel and Equipment Maintenance Technology at the Comminuty College of Baltimore County in MD, I'm also a trainer for the NAFTC (National Alternative Fuels Training Consortium) thru West Virginia University, and I'm formerly a techincal instructor for Ford Motor Company, and specialized in hybrid and diesel vehicles. I'm a very big proponent of alternate fuel sources, electric power, and energy independence. So, those are my credentials...

Hydrogen only carries about 2/3 the energy carried by long-chain hydrocarbon petroleum fuels. WVU experimented with several different HHO devices, and determined they do not produce enough hydrogen to positively affect the fuel economy of a vehicle. A few of the devices drew so much current, they actually caused fuel economy to decrease, and prevented the vehicle's charging system from properly operating. Alternators are carefully sized to the vehicle's needs. A Festiva alternator produces 45amps. Vehicle current draw at full load (headlamps, wipers, blower fan, cooling fan, EFI, A/C) draws 35-40amps. The remaining current is used to float a surface charge across the battery, because all batteries are in a constant state of self-discharge. So, where, may I ask, is this extra capacity?

Not trying to be a tool, I just don't care to see someone make incorrect statements.

by the way, are you aware that there are different levels of hybridization?

Honda products are classified as Medium Hybrids. They utilize electric power to decrease engine emissions in urban environment operation. The goal was NOT overall higher fuel economy (with the exception of the Insight, which is now out of production). Full or Strong Hybrids, like the Prius and Escape, are designed to improve fuel economy and lower emission across all modes of operation. Consider that the Escape weighs over 3000lbs, has multiple passenger safety devices, passenger comfort devices, cabin entertainment systems, is very crash-worthy, and performs like a V6 gasoline powered vehicle. It does this while averaging 28-34mpg highway and 32-40mpg city. That same vehicle 10 years ago wouldn't 25mpg.

I see you're in California, correct? Does it get below 50 degF in you part of Cali? If so, WVO/RVO isn't always practical, because the fuel begins to cloud at 65, and gel at 50. Not saying it can't be done, just pointing out that WVO/RVO isn't pactical in all climates.

^^^hahahaha.....can you say...BLOWN OUT OF THE WATER.... besides, didn't the Hindenburg use hydrogen...I think I will wait for Jim to tell me what the next best vehicle is , next to the Festy of course....lol

[ejp2fast]

curiosity struck and i found this:

http://tinyurl.com/6dhf9s