O2 question

[lasvegascop]

All I got to say is look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcy3JbGjQwo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h75_TGiwg78

[lasvegascop]

Above are links to see the man who actually invented the HHO systems, Stan Meyer and who mysteriously got killed in 98 ....hmmmmmm. The man patented his inventions in US, Europe and Japan. You tell me. And how weird it is that our technology can go in 5 years from Intel Processor being 250MB to 3GB quad core !! And here we are, 20 years later Festiva gets over 40 MPG...how sad that we let the oil companies dictate our wallets and future!
Please review the links above and share your thoughts...I want to hear what our Technical Instructor FB71 has to say about that. I have no doubt that he is the best of the best to teach and build in factory inviroment...but you only learn and then teach from what you are being supplied sir. Have you done any experimental fuel cells yourself? I'm not talking at the Ford Motor Company, where you are funded and sponsored by you know who?...I'm talking about you, your tools and your garage? I speak my mind what I see and what I believe in...I never said this works and everyone lets go and get it....I am in the process of building an HHO generator and if it works I will be posting all the data to see if anyone else is interested in building one. I will also post my findings if its a total disaster too, but after all, whats couple hundred $$$ in the drain...Festy still makes 40 MPG plus...I'm happy as is.
Oh by the way, if the HHO works, you can actually apply for federal exempt under the hybrid rule ......(whatever that is) hahahah

[FB71]

[QUOTE=lasvegascop]Above are links to see the man who actually invented the HHO systems, Stan Meyer and who mysteriously got killed in 98 ....hmmmmmm. [QUOTE]
hmmmmmmm, what? I'm guessing you think its a conspiracy? I won't be drawn into a debate about that, because I don't have enough information from either perspective.

[QUOTE=lasvegascop]The man patented his inventions in US, Europe and Japan. You tell me. And how weird it is that our technology can go in 5 years from Intel Processor being 250MB to 3GB quad core !! [QUOTE]
There are hundreds of thousands of useless patents in every patent office around the world. Comparing continued miniaturization of a current technology to creating a new technology is the proverbial 'apples to oranges'.

[QUOTE=lasvegascop]And here we are, 20 years later Festiva gets over 40 MPG...how sad that we let the oil companies dictate our wallets and future![QUOTE]
That would be sad, if it were true.

[QUOTE=lasvegascop]Please review the links above and share your thoughts...I want to hear what our Technical Instructor FB71 has to say about that. I have no doubt that he is the best of the best to teach and build in factory inviroment...but you only learn and then teach from what you are being supplied sir. Have you done any experimental fuel cells yourself? I'm not talking at the Ford Motor Company, where you are funded and sponsored by you know who?...I'm talking about you, your tools and your garage? [QUOTE]
Yes, may father and I have experimented with solar, ion, fuel cell, and hydraulic regenerative devices and vehicles since the 1970's. We have come to the same conclusions that industry has; with current technology, these devices are not viable. I'm already familiar with Stan Meyer. There are reasons I had not brought him up; 1: he has an occultist following because of his supposed martyrdom. 2: His devices have never been made available for independent testing. Private, independent testing institutions like WVU and Colorado State have not been allowed by Mr. Meyer's estate to evaluate his devices. Therefore, they were not encompased by my statement earlier. As I said, the devices commonly available have been found not function at a beneficial level.

[QUOTE=lasvegascop]I speak my mind what I see and what I believe in...I never said this works and everyone lets go and get it....I am in the process of building an HHO generator and if it works I will be posting all the data to see if anyone else is interested in building one. I will also post my findings if its a total disaster too, but after all, whats couple hundred $$$ in the drain...Festy still makes 40 MPG plus...I'm happy as is.[QUOTE]
Great! That's what this country needs, entrepeneurs, such as yourself! What we don't need is smoke and mirrors and empty promises by charllotains looking to make a quick buck off of the unsuspecting. That is what I try to warn folks against. I have seen first hand the failures of devices like the one posted on Ebay, and just don't want to see someone buy into the propaganda hook, line and sinker.

[jglutz]

Where does hydrogen come from.....I know the answer....the point is....commercially available hydrogen comes form an energy intensive procees and natural gas. Until some one figures out how to make hydrogen commercially available without depleting the natural gas supply...or adding a ton of energy....wide spread use won't happen.

[lasvegascop]

Hydrogen is very easy to make...actually too easy. The problem is storing it. Thats why car manufacturers dont make Hydro cars because of this dilemma. Its extremely explosive and so on. But if you make or have an "On demand" generator then is very feasible. Just to bring a point, the space shuttle is powered by hydrogen and because of a leaky O-ring our Challenger blew up. Ane we are talking about NASA here. So to answer your question...Hydrogen is water my friend. No digging for natural gas, just an electrical reaction to seperate the atoms, which you get hydrogen and oxygen. Now to seperate the two thats another story!

[FB71]

Hydrogen is very easy to make...actually too easy. The problem is storing it. Thats why car manufacturers dont make Hydro cars because of this dilemma. Its extremely explosive and so on. But if you make or have an "On demand" generator then is very feasible. Just to bring a point, the space shuttle is powered by hydrogen and because of a leaky O-ring our Challenger blew up. Ane we are talking about NASA here. So to answer your question...Hydrogen is water my friend. No digging for natural gas, just an electrical reaction to seperate the atoms, which you get hydrogen and oxygen. Now to seperate the two thats another story!

ok, first, the Challenger...
the o-ring failure on the Morton-Thiokol SRB (Solid Rocket Booster, meaning the fuel is in a solid form) had nothing to do with the liquid fuel components stored in the shuttle's main tank, which by the way is hydrogen peroxide, and oxidizer, not a fuel. The actual fuel is a variation of fuming nitric acid.

second, Joe's point...
Current hydrogen production is accomplished by hydrocracking natural gas, a much less energy intensive method of refining hydrogen versus electrolysis.

lastly, hydrogen is NOT water. Hydrogen is a COMPONENT OF water.

oh, and it may have been NASA that took the hit, but it was politics that drove the decision, not the technical people. The engineers on both sides declared the conditions unsafe for launch.

[lasvegascop]

yeah after I posted it about the O-ring I hit myself in the head...it was the solid rocket booster...duhhhh me

And like I said way earlier, not a chemist here, but who would think hydrogen is "water"? I said it in a very down to earth as plainly as possible way. Everyone knows that hydrogen is gas and water is liquid...so thnx for the facts sir

[FB71]

no problem.

and by the way, best wishes to you on your endeavor. Even a failed experiment is successful! We learn more from failure than success.

and please call me Jim!

[lasvegascop]

jim,

Thank you for the optimizm...I hope I have good news about this project and you will be the first one to know what had happ'd hahahah

[deathegg]

Yes, i would also like to wish you good luck.. I am a sceptic but do try to keep an open mind about things. Please keep excellent notes, take pics, keep records, etc, and let us know.

Hey Jim, I consider myself well versed in automotive technology, but have never heard of something called a Hydraulic regenerative device? What is it?

Mark

[FB71]

in the 70's, Eaton (OEM supplier) proposed a drivetrain modification to incorporate a variable displacement hydraulic pump to be driven by the rear axle during deceleration. This pump would then charge an accumulator (cylinder or sphere divorced internally by a diaphram, with high pressure nitrogen captured on one side) with hydraulic fluid. During acceleration, the accumulated fluid, now under great pressure, would be metered into a hydraulic motor, also connected to the rear axle. The motor would apply additional torque to aid inacceleration, reducing the load on the engine, thereby reducing tailpipe emissions. Ford experimented heavily with this on medium duty trucks in the late 90's-early 00's. The system added excessive weight, complexity and cost to the vehicle, and was deemed to currently be 'not economically viable', meaning, they couldn't make money on it. Also, it did not present the end user with sufficient fuel savings to justify the additional cost. And, as it was intended for commercial trucks, the additional weight reduced the truck's legal payload capacity, meaning the truck earned less money each time it travelled. Coupled with the higher purchase price and lack of sufficient fuel savings, the project was shelved. I've heard from inside Ford that they may once again soon re-examine the concept, in a different capacity.

[deathegg]

Mmm, interesting.. since i'm a train nut, it sorta brings to mind Diesel Hydraulic locomotives, in that they never were very successful except in certain countries (Germany mainly) and only then for certain tractive needs, mainly heavy slow loads. DH loco's basically were arranged like a car, with the prime mover (Diesel engine) connected to an automatic transmission, which then through gears drove the wheelsets. They never proved to be as reliable as modern Diesel electric locos, where a the prime mover is connected to a generator (AC in modern ones, DC in older ones) which provides electric power for the traction motors geared to the wheelsets.

GE now has a hybrid loco, with massive battery packs, which can provide some of the electric needs under certain conditions and then the regenerative braking recharges them.

[FB71]

Exactly!!! I'm not a train nut (more military aircraft), but I've followed GE's development of the Evolution hybrid loco thru the Green Car Congress. I do contract training work for the Port of Baltimore, so I get to play around some trains on occasion.

[deathegg]

i get to play with trains too; i volunteer at the Orange Empire RR museum, in nearby Perris, CA.. the newest loco is 41 years old!
Check it out at

https://www.oerm.org

do you live anywhere near Rockville or Mt.Airy? I have some friends there. Nice areas.

[lasvegascop]

Hey Jim....

I had another idea that just wont leave me alone. What do you think about getting rid of the engine under the hood...replacing it with a small gas powered generator which produces 110VAC which in turn would power two electric motors that would either hook up to the tranny or just straight to the front wheels??? A small gas generator's motor basically would burn about what? 2-4 gallons of gas per day? You could cover alot of distance in a day, huh? I'm sure you guys had something like that going in your experimetal vehicles????