Battery Cables? Question...

[MeeMo]

How long can a running car run with the battery cables disconnected, if at all? Why do I ask?

Well, the previous owner of Pud (92 Festy EFI 5spd) said she had an issue of dying at idle at odd times (like at stoplights) and refusing to fire back over. No whirr, no click, no lights, etc. Had to be towed to a shop for a mystery repair that fixed it for a week or so, then it would crap out again. She dropped a pile of cash into it on an alternator, new battery, belts- even a timing belt- in an effort to resolve it. (Don't ask me why on the timing belt, maybe the shop needed some extra cash). None of it worked so she gave up and parked it. ***I sort of went through this stuff on the board a few weeks ago, so if it sounds familiar, sorry...

Fast forward a year to today. I now own it, have checked it out, freshened it up, and see no obvious problems, other than one... Both battery cables are tightened as much as they can be, but they still can be wiggled on the terminal posts. Maybe they're coming loose and causing the car to die? Is that possible? Makes sense if so... Any ideas?

[GenevaDirt]

Well....you can usually run a car without a battery once you have it started....if your altenator is ok it should run fine. I have never tried with the Festy though so I am unsure if it is the same.

[Festy46]

It's possible if you have those original "band" type clamps on the battery terminal that they do lose contact. If you are using those, put a 5/16 flat washer under the clamp nut bolt. The washer will put extra pressure on the side of the band clamp. Another possibility might be a bad fusible link. With the car running, take hold of each link and wiggle it around and see if the car stalls.

[MeeMo]

It's possible if you have those original "band" type clamps on the battery terminal that they do lose contact. If you are using those, put a 5/16 flat washer under the clamp nut bolt. The washer will put extra pressure on the side of the band clamp. Another possibility might be a bad fusible link. With the car running, take hold of each link and wiggle it around and see if the car stalls.

Yes they are the 'band' type, and I will test the links tonight. Thanks for the suggestion.

[SimonTuffGuy]

I'd suggest replacing the fusible links with the cartridge style fuses from your auto parts store. Much easier to use and replace if something happens...

As for the terminals... I've never seen that on any of my stock Festivas (or my dads)... The terminals always seem to go tight. If that is the case, pickup a new set of terminals. They're only a few $ and it would be an easy fix if that were the case.

[MeeMo]

I'd suggest replacing the fusible links with the cartridge style fuses from your auto parts store. Much easier to use and replace if something happens....

Could you explain that a bit further? Maybe a pic or two? Thanks.

[SimonTuffGuy]

Sure. They are a cartridge, they fit into the fusible links. They are common in newer cars, god knows why they didn't just put them in from the factory instead of these dumb wired ones.

I grabbed a bunch from the junkyard of of Probes, Aspires, Escorts, and they can be had from 323's, 626's, etc...

Here is my post from another thread with a picture of them installed:

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/showpost.php?p=143954&postcount=11

You want 2 20A's and a 30A for your car (blue on the sides (20s) and pink in the middle)...

[MeeMo]

Sure. They are a cartridge, they fit into the fusible links. They are common in newer cars, god knows why they didn't just put them in from the factory instead of these dumb wired ones.

I grabbed a bunch from the junkyard of of Probes, Aspires, Escorts, and they can be had from 323's, 626's, etc...

Here is my post from another thread with a picture of them installed:

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/showpost.php?p=143954&postcount=11

You want 2 20A's and a 30A for your car (blue on the sides (20s) and pink in the middle)...

Sweet, thanks. Perfect. Looks like I have a stop to make on the way home today. Seafoam and cartridge style fuses. Oh, and new battery cables.

[jglutz]

The lose battery terminal could be the problem. You should nut be able to swing them.

Just a quick test to see if this can elinimate the die-ing problem....loosen and remove the battery clamp.....spread the clamp open a little bit...make sure the nut and bolt are still engaged....slide the clamp over the battery post....in the gap between the battery post and the clamp....drive a small finishing nail or brad to fill the gap. Tighten the clamp. The nail can even be driven in whilte the clamp is in place. Be careful not to break the case. Not reccommended for a long term fix but to see if the problem goes away.

[MeeMo]

The lose battery terminal could be the problem. You should nut be able to swing them.

Just a quick test to see if this can elinimate the die-ing problem....loosen and remove the battery clamp.....spread the clamp open a little bit...make sure the nut and bolt are still engaged....slide the clamp over the battery post....in the gap between the battery post and the clamp....drive a small finishing nail or brad to fill the gap. Tighten the clamp. The nail can even be driven in whilte the clamp is in place. Be careful not to break the case. Not reccommended for a long term fix but to see if the problem goes away.

Thanks. I'm going to swap them anyway; the positive one has a chunk missing from it so it's as good a reason as any to replace it.

[lastplace]

loose battery terminals will not cause it to die. once the alternator in spinning the battery does almost no work so it will not cause it to die. however it could be the reason that it wont restart because if they are loose the battery will not be charged by the alternator. as for the car dieing at lights and so forth, i remember hearing of a similar problem and it was a very easy stupid problem to fix. i will have to call the guy that told me and ask what it was because my memory sucks lol

[MeeMo]

loose battery terminals will not cause it to die. once the alternator in spinning the battery does almost no work so it will not cause it to die. however it could be the reason that it wont restart because if they are loose the battery will not be charged by the alternator. as for the car dieing at lights and so forth, i remember hearing of a similar problem and it was a very easy stupid problem to fix. i will have to call the guy that told me and ask what it was because my memory sucks lol

As for the first part of your post, right you are. I popped off the cables while it was running and it definitely stayed on, ran like usual.

As for the second part, I'm pretty anxious to hear what the cause was so jog that horrible memory, would ya!!!

[m715]

I don't know if this would help, but my 90 (and no, I have not looked at exactly what in the wiring is doing this yet) will do as you describe. In its case, if you wiggle the bundle of wires located near the igniter, next to the left(drivers)side strut, the car will die/start right up. This may be exactly what you are talking about, or another point like it somewhere else. I found this by accident while moving a bracket under the hood. After disturbing the bundle mentioned, the car would not start. I moved the bracket back where it was, it started. Another day, while the engine was running, I accidentally moved the same bundle, the car died immediately. Wiggle the bundle, car started right up.

HTH
Michael

[MeeMo]

I don't know if this would help, but my 90 (and no, I have not looked at exactly what in the wiring is doing this yet) will do as you describe. In its case, if you wiggle the bundle of wires located near the igniter, next to the left(drivers)side strut, the car will die/start right up. This may be exactly what you are talking about, or another point like it somewhere else. I found this by accident while moving a bracket under the hood. After disturbing the bundle mentioned, the car would not start. I moved the bracket back where it was, it started. Another day, while the engine was running, I accidentally moved the same bundle, the car died immediately. Wiggle the bundle, car started right up.

HTH
Michael

Thanks, every response is appreciated. Since this hasn't happened to me yet, I have nothing to personally troubleshoot on so all of you and your past experiences are super-valuable. One thing I do know for sure about the car is that the battery cables were too loose and worn to be tightened to the posts. That was corrected last night ( I replaced them). And the more I read the archives, the more I think that there are two problems in play. And of course it's based on the PO's explanations more than any of my experience, since I just got it.

1.) It dies at idle at "odd" times, and always at the worst times, like at a stoplight.

2.) It won't re-start once it dies (no whirr, click, etc).

As for #1, I don't know yet. As for #2, I suspect it wouldn't re-fire because the loose cables weren't able to sufficiently connect to the terminals to fire the Festy. She always had it towed and they always 'checked' everything out, likely fiddling with the cables in the process. I will say this much; the cables were obviously bad.

I wouldn't recommend that particular repair shop to my worst enemy. How did they miss that?? And not only did they miss the cables being bad, they missed them being bad even after they replaced the battery! They actually convinced her to spend a few grand shotgunning that never helped. Well, helped me, anyway...

Side note, the archives also point to a dirty TB and loose VAF. What's the VAF, and where is it?

[b8kedbeans]

A dirty TB (throttle body) and or loose VAF would not prevent the starter from spinning. Keeping a volt meter handy in case the problem resurfaces is a great idea. Replacing the battery clamps could very well have addressed the problem. Good luck!