Front wheel bearing end play

[Mike McKown]

Okay, I've read there is a pretty large assortment of OEM front wheel bearing spacers that were used on new assemblies to adjust bearing end play. I've also read that they are no longer available.

So, I take a front hub/bearings to the machine shop today to get new bearings pressed on. The guy there says new bearings come with a new spacer/shim. You use the supplied spacer with the replacement bearings. That would seem to indicate the supplied spacer is speced for the bearing dimension set. Is this right?

If not, what is the bearing end play as specified by Ford? I realize end play can't be checked unless the bearins in the hub are pulled together with something like a bolt, nut and a couple washers to simulate the axle nut being tightened on the car.

In short, how do I check this guy's work before I install the hub?

[Mike McKown]

Let me change the question. This answer isn't in the archives that I can find.

What is the bearing end play as specified in the Ford Manual?

[25Horseplay]

The spacers DO NOT come with new bearings. There is a complete procedure in the Ford manuals only. There are a total of 21 different shims available. Depending on who you ask the shims are mated to the houseing. Don't use cheap bearing, use good one like Timken's. And its not end play that is whats being checked, its the preload that is checked with a special Ford tool and an inch pound torque wrench.

[Mike McKown]

Not to be arugmentative about whether a spacer did/did not come with the bearings but in my case they did. Sold as an assembly. That was the purpose of my question because I knew there were different thickness spacers/shims.

Apparently, there are a LOT of machine shops out there that don't know how these things go together. Two of the major ones in the Louisville, Ky. area think the bearings just press in and that spacer sets the preload/clearance.

Understandably, I'm a little confused. Number 1, I don't have a Ford manual. Number two, I've always thought tapered rollers should have at least a few thousandths clearance. An exception being pinion bearings in a conventional rear axle but that uses a crush sleeve to achieve the preload, not a fixed spacer.

Based on what you're telling me, this machinist did not do any setup on my bearings. Just pressed the new ones on. So, if we're talking preload and not end play, what is the preload as measured by a torque wrench? I'd like to check it before I install the hub on the car.

The spacers DO NOT come with new bearings. There is a complete procedure in the Ford manuals only. There are a total of 21 different shims available. Depending on who you ask the shims are mated to the houseing. Don't use cheap bearing, use good one like Timken's. And its not end play that is whats being checked, its the preload that is checked with a special Ford tool and an inch pound torque wrench.

[GenevaDirt]

Where and what brand of bearing is the one you bought? We have been doing this for a long time and yours would be the first ever that has come with it. Also...the spacers are for the hub assembly so an assortment was needed when it was being worked on so they could choose the proper one during assembly. That is why we save the one in the hub, if there is one, to put back into the assembly when repairing.

[Mike McKown]

I'll get back to you next week. Machine shop closed for the weekend. Maybe the guy doesn't know what he's talking about. I know I'm a little confused. That's why I'm asking questions and I didn't find anything in the archives that directly answered my question. I still want to know what the preload spec is if anyone has it.

I'd like this to be put together like it's supposed to be. There seems to be a shortage of knowledge in the machinist field here.

[25Horseplay]

I would be really surprised IF the actual spacers were included. There is 21 different spacers for the hubs, how would they know if they are correct???

[Mike McKown]

Beats me. That's why I'm asking questions. Does anyone here know what the pre-load spec is?

The first machinist I talked to told me there were NO shims for the bearings. They do a lot of front end work on front wheel drive cars. I left him and went to the second place 'cause I didn't like his answer. The second guy says,

"bearings come with the right spacer. I've done quite a few like this. Nobody has ever complained they weren't right."

So, I left mine and let him change out the bearings. All I want to do is check his work. How do I do it? Put a bolt through both sides of the bearings and tighten it up to simulate axle nut torque and measure drag on the hub. How much drag is there supposed to be?

I would be really surprised IF the actual spacers were included. There is 21 different spacers for the hubs, how would they know if they are correct???

[FB71]

ok, as a Ford tech and instructor; I've NEVER seen a set of bearings come WITH a new spacer, but, anything is possible.

Taper rollers are supposed to be preloaded, ie; no endplay whatsoever.

Festiva front hub bearings are to be set at 2.5-10 lb/in rotational torque

hope that helps.

[Mike McKown]

Yes, that spec helps a bunch. That's the one thing I've been looking for.

As for a tapered rollers and end play? Front wheel bearings on all rear wheel drive cars are adjusted with some end play. It's not called end play but that what it amounts to unless you crank the nut up tight against the bearings and put the cotter key in. Then, it's called pre-load but that's not the way you adjust front wheel bearings on rear drive cars. Same as pinion bearings. They have a pre-load via a crush sleeve.

Corvette/Corvair rear wheel bearings are tapered roller with a custom fitted shim pack between the races. "End play" is spec'd at .002-.008.

It's actually irrelavant whether a pre-fit spacer came with these bearings. All I was after was how to check behind this guy. When he said the new bearings came with the spacer, I was automatically suspect he didn't know what he was doing. Same with the first place I went to. If the bearings set to a clearance, you might be able to target a spacer that would give clearance with in range. If you're setting a true pre-load, no way.

Thanks for the spec info.




[QUOTE=FB71;Taper rollers are supposed to be preloaded, ie; no endplay whatsoever.

Festiva front hub bearings are to be set at 2.5-10 lb/in rotational torque

hope that helps.[/QUOTE]

[FB71]

Corvette/Corvair rear wheel bearings are tapered roller with a custom fitted shim pack between the races. "End play" is spec'd at .002-.008.

That's because on those rear hubs, like manual transmissions, the bearings are set cold with some endplay, to allow for thermal expansion during operation. The BW T-5 trans is set up with 0.001"-0.005" endplay cold, and that translates into the same amount of preload hot.

Additionally, front wheel bearing preload on most rear-drive vehicles is typically 10-30 lb/in.. I know, I've been doing and teaching this information for 15 years.

Not trying to be rude, I just like to make sure the most accurate information is available.

[Mike McKown]

That's what I'm after. Accurate information. I've not found this bearing spec anywhere else.

I'm sure you know what you're talking about if you've been teaching this stuff for 15 years, right out of the book. I am not exactly a rookie myself. My first automotive work was changing a head gasket on a Model A Ford and that was 56 years ago. I spent 31 years in Ford Assembly Plants working jobs all the way from the bottom up to middle management. Part of that time was on the chassis frame line where front wheel bearing set up was done. So, I've been around the block a time or two myself. I appreciate yours and the other's, help.





[QUOTE=FB71
I just like to make sure the most accurate information is available.[/QUOTE]

[FB71]

WOW!!! Mike, great to have your experience here! What plants did you work at? I worked for Ford in the Philadelphia region, and was just offered a position as a QC engineer in Dearborn.

[C Cook]

The part numbers for the bearings are the same for Festiva, Aspire and Kia Rio, The setup also. So I would think that any Kia Dealer should be able to do the setup with the right shims. Can anybody confirm this?

[Mike McKown]

I worked at Louisville Assembly where we made F-series, LTD/Crown Vic, Ranger, Bronco II, and Explorer. I worked three years in Dearborn in New Product Development on the launch of the '98 Ranger/Explorer. After I retired, I went to work at the Kentucky Truck Plant and worked on the Super Duty and Excursion model launches. I've spent some time in other Ford assembly plants, Oakville, Atlanta, St. Louis, Chicago, Edison, Norfolk, Dearborn . Chicago Stamping, Woodhaven Stamping, Dearborn Stamping and others.

In the assembly plant, I worked Production in Body, some Paint, Trim, Final Chassis and Pre-Delivery areas. New Product Development, Quality Control, Process Engineering, Manufacturing Engineering, Industrial Engineering, Warranty Research and Maintenence. So, I done a little of everything for Ford.

Now, I just tinker with my toys.

Good luck on your new position if you choose to take it.

WOW!!! Mike, great to have your experience here! What plants did you work at? I worked for Ford in the Philadelphia region, and was just offered a position as a QC engineer in Dearborn.